New Stuff Found upon Re-read

[Aulrick Vendour]

I've been rereading CoS and am nearing the end. I may have found something that I hadn't noticed before, but to know for sure I have a question: Does anyone remember the restrictions when lifting someone with the one power? I remember there was one, seeing as Siuan was unable to lift Brayn after being healed from her stilling. I also recall they talked about it in other parts of the books as well.

 

[HGGundamReviews]

The distance off the ground a channeler can lift a person off the ground is directly proportional to their level of strength in the one power. It is impossible to lift one's self with the one power. Creating a bridge can hold a person in the air for X distance where X is enumerated by the Channelers Strength + Belief, Women can make Longer Bridges than Men Reason unknown. A Channeler can use a bridge they themselves make without the "can't Lift Yourself" limit acting on them up to the size of the bridge they can make and only to that distance.

 

[Morrighan Daghdera]

Continuing the re-read/listen into The Dragon Reborn, I come to a chapter where the reader learns much as Egwene visits Verin Sedai in her office, and a few interesting things come up as well. At one point, they discuss a parchment that Verin thinks holds some undiscovered truths:

"Rosel wrote that it held secrets the world could not face."

"Heart of the Dark. Ba'alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. TRUTH BURNS AND SEARS. Hope fails before truth. A LIE IS OUR SHIELD. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark? Who can face the Betrayer of Hope? Soul of shadow, Soul of the Shadow, he is ... "

Of course, we know that Ba'alzamon was really Ishamael the whole time in books 1 & 2. That's known. However; I don't think that is the lie that protects the world. Truth burns and sears. A lie is our shield. What is this truth that burns and sears? One that we must be protected from with a lie? I've thought about that and come up with a few things, but I'm curious as to what you guys make of this one.

I think the truth was that the Dark One was not sealed for all eternity by the Creator at the moment of creation, and the catechism that's recited in that regard is the lie.

 

[Midian Venamar]

As per the reason women can create bigger bridges, my guess is it's because bridges are made from Air ... which women are generally stronger in. The ability to lift someone with the OP should therefore directly relate to how good with Air a channeler is (so watch out for Windfinders).

For the Verin/prophecy question, I have a theory. My theory is that what Verin was reading isn't some random parchment with secrets ... it's Dark Prophecy. That being said, the lie being a shield is more likely referring to what Ishy is going though in his head, and why he is the lead Forsaken. That, in turn, is why he has such nihilistic beliefs ... he sees our fight against the DO as an inevitable defeat, which is why the lie being a shield sentence is followed by one about the futility of that fight.

 

[Tehmpus]

It's been a few days, and I've seen that Morrighan and Midian have responded, so I'll add my thoughts on Verin's parchments. I think both Midian and Morrighan have parts of the puzzle, but not complete. I agree with Midian that Verin's parchment is indeed some sort of Dark Prophecy. And Morrighan might be right in that the catechism isn't fully true. I'm not sure if that's the exact lie tho.

Let's look at it directly.

"TRUTH BURNS AND SEARS"

It can have two different meanings.... a figurative, or a literal. At first, I was trying to figure out which was meant.... the figurative meaning in that once the lie was revealed, the truth burned and seared your mind with the revelation? Or perhaps a more literal mundane, physical burning and searing as if by a fire.

But with Jordan, the answer is probably both. So here's part of what I've figured out. The literal part is meant to be the TRUE power. One of the effects of the TRUE power is that it literally burns and sears you from the inside out. That's why Ishamael has fires coming forth through his eyes and mouth.

Now the figurative part is tougher to figure out, but I've got a theory. First off, why would the essence of the Dark One himself be called the TRUE power in the first place? Why is it that certain things can only be done magically with the TRUE power and not the ONE power. Have we seen anything that the ONE power can do that the TRUE power cannot? Sure, there may be some things as we see the ONE power being used pretty much all the time in the books, yet rarely see the TRUE power in action. Please let me know if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen one instance where Ishamael had to use the ONE power to do something because the TRUE power was insufficient.

Secondly, why is it that when the Dark One speaks, it's always in ALL CAPS? ... just the same as the CREATOR? The first read through, I didn't really think anything of it since both beings are immortal. Perhaps immortal beings just always speak in ALL CAPS.

And this is my theory albeit possibly incorrect or could use some fine tuning. What if the figurative lie that burns and sears is that the Dark One and Creator are separate entities? What if the Dark One and Creator are just two halves to a whole? The good/lawful part of the creator locked away the evil/chaotic part of himself in prison? That would surely be a truth that figuratively burns and sears. The literal truth is already pretty obvious.

 

[Midian Venamar]

Tehmpus, I like the point about the True Power searing someone from the inside out ... although I doubt that's why Ishy had flames coming from his eyes and mouth. That seemed more to be a scare tactic while he was in T'A'R. Also, I don't know if you can put quite so much emphasis on the "true" part of the True Power. Remember that the One Power comes from the True Source.

 

[Tehmpus]

Tehmpus, I like the point about the True Power searing someone from the inside out ... although I doubt that's why Ishy had flames coming from his eyes and mouth. That seemed more to be a scare tactic while he was in T'A'R. Also, I don't know if you can put quite so much emphasis on the "true" part of the True Power. Remember that the One Power comes from the True Source.

Midian, that's what I first thought about Ishamael's fires from within. In fact, I remember posting something about that very subject in an older thread. However, it isn't just some illusionary scare tactic from tel'aranrhiod. There are several instances where he appeared, and the flames have been visable in the real world. Secondly, and the critical proof comes when Ishamael was killed by Rand in the Stone of Tear. His physical corpse had burned out marks where the eyes and mouth would have been. They were physical burns, even after his death.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

If the fire was something that happened to him in TAR, then the marks would have been real upon waking. Also, maybe the saa, those black streaks in the eyes, manifested themselves as fire while in TAR. Dunno, Just a random thought.

 

[Caliden Al'Waes]

Do you ever have those moments when you're re-reading and something just clicks and you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Yeah. I had that. I was reading book 8-9 and remembering that a certain Blue was free of the oaths after younglings helped out, and then realized the Sisters Who took the bull to market and were cut off were also no longer held by the oaths. I laid in bed last night going "Oh... oh goodness. OH GOODNESS. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL HIM."

Spoiler

So when Suian is stilled she's freed from the oath rod. That means when the sisters were severed by Rand breaking the shield they held on him, they were also free from the rod. Something that none of the wise ones know. This puts them at a distinct advantage over Rand. We already know one of them is black, but what of the others? What are their motives? Surely they aren't just meekly going to give up everything they've believed in for years because Rand is Ta'veanesfjdis or whatever lol.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

I've been thinking about Slayer.

Isam wasn't taken by the trollocs alone, he was taken along with his mother Breyan.

Now we know Isam obviously survived as an infant....... and I'm wondering if Breyan did as well.

We know she was influnced at least by the darkfriend Cowin Gemallan to bring down Malkier, she may have even been a darkfriend herself although she may have just been a pawn.

I'm very curious to know what happened to her.

 

[Tehmpus]

Do you ever have those moments when you're re-reading and something just clicks and you have an "Ah ha!" moment? Yeah. I had that. I was reading book 8-9 and remembering that a certain Blue was free of the oaths after younglings helped out, and then realized the Sisters Who took the bull to market and were cut off were also no longer held by the oaths. I laid in bed last night going "Oh... oh goodness. OH GOODNESS. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL HIM."

Spoiler

So when Suian is stilled she's freed from the oath rod. That means when the sisters were severed by Rand breaking the shield they held on him, they were also free from the rod. Something that none of the wise ones know. This puts them at a distinct advantage over Rand. We already know one of them is black, but what of the others? What are their motives? Surely they aren't just meekly going to give up everything they've believed in for years because Rand is Ta'veanesfjdis or whatever lol.

Caliden, I haven't gotten that far in my re-read/listen. But from what I remember, Rand only stilled a couple of the Aes Sedai shielding him. He did not still every single Aes Sedai in that group. Secondly, of the Aes Sedai he did still, I don't remember them being healed of their stilling. Only Nynaeve and the yellows she taught from the rebel camp are able to heal stilling, plus their version only heals them partway. Perhaps I just don't remember exactly, but I think the women need a man to heal them fully of the stilling to regain their full powers.

 

[Tehmpus]

I've been thinking about Slayer.

Isam wasn't taken by the trollocs alone, he was taken along with his mother Breyan.

Now we know Isam obviously survived as an infant....... and I'm wondering if Breyan did as well.

We know she was influnced at least by the darkfriend Cowin Gemallan to bring down Malkier, she may have even been a darkfriend herself although she may have just been a pawn.

I'm very curious to know what happened to her.

Axis, I've got nothing to point to as proof of this, but it has always seemed to me that Breyan was a darkfriend from the get go. Perhaps one of those power hungry wives, pushing her husband to do wrong things. I don't really have anything to go on for that except that one would think that a woman and child would simply get tossed in a trolloc cookpot when found. Instead we know that the child, Isam, survived. What interests me more is what sort of ancient evil Isam and Lord Luc met in the high passes of the blight? Birgitte apparently knew something about it, but didn't give Perrin much of an explanation when they met in Tel'aranrhiod. I have a strong feeling that it has something to do with both Darkhounds and the vermin spies of the Dark One. I could cite reasons for that idea, but I'm not much of a quoter. I tend to just tell the idea. You're the one who likes to post the extensive quotes. heh

 

[Kitan Tataru]

Has everyone here read the book 14 prologue? I'd like to add something to the Isam discussion but I'm afraid of posting spoilers...

 

[Morrighan Daghdera]

Kitan, try this thread. The title mentions excerpts and spoilers, so I think you should be covered.

http://www.tarvalon.net/showthread....ht-Excerpts-discussion-(obvious-MoL-spoilers)

or this one mentions the prologue specifically & also about spoilers:

http://www.tarvalon.net/showthread.php?4309-Memory-of-Light-Prologue-Spoilers

Looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Caliden Al'Waes]

Caliden, I haven't gotten that far in my re-read/listen. But from what I remember, Rand only stilled a couple of the Aes Sedai shielding him. He did not still every single Aes Sedai in that group. Secondly, of the Aes Sedai he did still, I don't remember them being healed of their stilling. Only Nynaeve and the yellows she taught from the rebel camp are able to heal stilling, plus their version only heals them partway. Perhaps I just don't remember exactly, but I think the women need a man to heal them fully of the stilling to regain their full powers.

Yeah, the ones who were stilled, 3 of them I believe, were healed by an As'hman or whatever. Completely healed to their original strength where as Nynaeve only heals to their partial strength.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Caliden, I haven't gotten that far in my re-read/listen. But from what I remember, Rand only stilled a couple of the Aes Sedai shielding him. He did not still every single Aes Sedai in that group. Secondly, of the Aes Sedai he did still, I don't remember them being healed of their stilling. Only Nynaeve and the yellows she taught from the rebel camp are able to heal stilling, plus their version only heals them partway. Perhaps I just don't remember exactly, but I think the women need a man to heal them fully of the stilling to regain their full powers.

Tehmpus, Flynn Heals those Aes Sedai. He figures out how to do it on his own. I cannot remember the exact book where this happens, but it does. A woman can only fully Heal a man, and a man can only fully Heal a woman.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

No prologue spoilers outside of the appropriate thread please. Which will do until we open up the new forum. I haven't read it yet.

Tehmpus, Flynn Heals those Aes Sedai. He figures out how to do it on his own. I cannot remember the exact book where this happens, but it does. A woman can only fully Heal a man, and a man can only fully Heal a woman.

I always liked Damer Flinn.

He healed Irgain Fatamed, Sashalle Anderly and Ronaille Vevanio.

And correct about the gender difference which was confirmed by RJ.

[h=4]Interview: Oct 4th, 2005[/h] Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME
[h=4][/h] [h=4]Robert Jordan[/h] For Alys Kinch, the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective. A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration. It all ties into that theme I keep harping on. Men and women have to work together to be their most effective. And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

 

[Kitan Tataru]

I think I found a picture of the type of ferry they have at Taren Ferry and in Shienar and other places:

Spoiler

That look about right? It's been driving me nuts not knowing what those things look like, it totally messes with my mental picture

(still in TGH, now in chapter 10, I think)

 

[Midian Venamar]

Looks about right to me ... although I imagine more of a dock for it to house a boat big enough to fit the crew and their horses.

 

[Tehmpus]

Yes, Yes... Calidan was right that the stilled ones were healed by Ashaman. I just didn't remember that part.

Kitan, the picture of the ferry looks great. Interesting that you would mention a ferry as I included a ferry in my D&D game last night.