New Stuff Found upon Re-read

[Tehmpus]

Looks like the original thread is gone, so I'll try to remember some stuff I posted before.

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[Tehmpus]

#1 Illian is constantly mentioned in it's connection to the Horn of Valere, yet the Horn is blown only in Falme up to this point. The Great Hunts for the Horn always begin in Illian. Also, when the Horn of Valere is initially found, Moiraine immediately says that the Horn must be sent to Illian. Why?

#2 In the beginning of the Great Hunt, we see Ishamael having a meeting with a group of important darkfriends (Two of which are Ingtar and Carriden). During the meeting each darkfriend sort of magically lifts onto his/her toes and is given instructions by Ishamael. Each is show lifelike figures of all three boys, Rand, Mat, and Perrin. Yet in book one, Ishamael seemed to be trying to figure out which of three was the Dragon as he called all 3 of them into Tel'aranrhiod in their dreams. At the end of The Eye of the World, Ishamael faces Rand in a battle at Shayul Ghul and is almost burned to death by him. So at the end of book1, Ishamael knows for sure that Rand is the Dragon; and that the other two boys are just farmboys from the Two Rivers. So why does he continue to go after all 3 boys in his plots in the beginning of The Great Hunt?

#3 In the Great Hunt, darkfriends seem to be chasing Bayle Doman in order to get his cuendillar aes sedai seal for Shaitan's prison. However, as Bayle describes the various ancient items that he purchased for his collection in the borderlands, he also mentions what appears to be an angreal useable by a man from the Age of Legends. It's described as "a small, age-dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword" "The fellow who sold it claimed if you held it long enough you started to feel warm. Doman never had, and neither had any of the crew he let hold it, but it was old, and that was enough for Doman."

#4 Argued in a different thread as to if the Chosen had been all released at the same time, or piecemiel, Aginor in The Eye of the World mentions that "some" of the Chosen had been freed in addition to Ishamael.

I'll add most stuff as I continue the re-read.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

he also mentions what appears to be an angreal useable by a man from the Age of Legends. It's described as "a small, age-dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword" "The fellow who sold it claimed if you held it long enough you started to feel warm. Doman never had, and neither had any of the crew he let hold it, but it was old, and that was enough for Doman."

Yeah that's an (sa) angreal almost certainly. The guy he bought it off clearly had the spark.

As to how strong it is?

Who knows? Could even conceivably be our mystery one.

At least we know its attuned to men.

No idea where it is now, Domon has been through a few things since then. capture, da'covale etc.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

It is small, but during my reread of Lord of Chaos, when Myrelle (sp?) the green who took Lan's Bond, was in TAR, for a second, she was wearing the collar for the marriage knife, with three knives hanging from it and a fourth that flickered. She said she was preparing Nynaeve for Lan, and she had to be telling the truth since she is not BA, but she also was not happy about it. She wanted to keep Lan for herself. I know that that was already known, but I had never noticed the marriage knife for Lan before this reread.

 

[Tehmpus]

Analiese, that's interesting. I always kinda assumed that the flickering marriage knife was there because Myrelle was having sex with Rand. Remember, many Aes Sedai felt that sex was one of the few things that could keep a Warder from killing himself after his Aes Sedai had been killed. It must have felt like she had a new warder/husband to Myrelle at the time even though she was doing it to save Lan and had promised to pass him to Nynaeve if she was ready.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

It was indeed confirmed that Lan was sleeping with her btw.

So yeah there's a good chance that knife is for him.

Could be for Llyw I guess, but the flickering makes me think Lan.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Yes, I picked up on the hickey that Egwene saw on Lan's neck on my first read through. The part that I hadn't noticed before was the marriage knife.

 

[Toral Delvar]

From #2, Ishy may have realised all three were ta'veren (thouhh it isn't clear how even Moiraine or Loial figured it out, at least all three rather than just one of them). I think someone mentioned that the prophecies don't mention companions, but that could be because people don't understand them - Mat and Perrin both seem to be in them, and Ishy seemed to know that one of the boys wolf be a wolfbrother and the other have the dagger

Or it could be that they are linked in the Dark Prophecies

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Maybe it isn't so much that they aren't mentioned as everyone just assumed that it was all about Rand. Maybe they are mentioned but because the prophecies are so murky that something got lost in translation.

 

[Padron Kerenmosa]

I think that the companions of the Dragon Reborn are mentioned in the Essanik Cycle (the Seanchan version of the prophecies) as the Wolf king and something I dont remember at the moment.
I only ask myself if Ishamael know the Essanik Cycle.

 

[Morrighan Daghdera]

The Wolf King is mentioned in the dark prophecies. Ishamael was fully aware of the Essanik Cycle. In fact, there's a strong possibility that he corrupted them as councilor to Hawkwing.

 

[Midian Venamar]

The Wolf King is also mentioned in the Essanik Cycle. Remember it's something that Tylee Khirgan thinks about when she allied herself to Perrin for a time.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Ishy corrupted the Seanchan prophecies, so who's to say that he didn't do it by adding bits of dark prophecy to them?

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

I don't think there can be any doubt of Ishy corrupting them. The copy of the Karaethon Cycle the Seanchan have is almost certainly wrong when compared to the mainlands. (assuming we can even trust the mainlands, which I'm never totally sure of). That said the Essanik is a bit suspect too which is interesting.

Also just to make it clear it's important to remember that the Essanik is not the corrupted version of the Karetheron but a separate prophesy again given by damane in Seanchan, One we don't know nearly enough about for my liking.

(they get confused by people sometimes).

Interview: Oct 27th, 2009

TGS Midnight Release - Matt Hatch (Verbatim)
Question

We know that The Karaethon Cycle and The Essanik Cycle are different. Is that because there were different contributors to each, or some other reason (like tampering by Ishamael)? Which is more correct?
Brandon Sanderson

The Essanik Cycle is had only in Seanchan and there were different contributors. Which is more correct? I’m not going to say which is more correct. There has been tampering...
QUESTION

In both?
BRANDON SANDERSON

People are not perfect, alright? Let’s just say that and there are lots of forces at work. The Essanik Cycle, they have tried to preserve it as perfectly as they can. If the Outriggers ever get written there will be more information about what The Essanik Cycle is. It is had only in Seanchan. It was given by damane in Seanchan, so nobody knows about it on the main continent.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Thanks Axis Gaidin.

 

[Tehmpus]

My reread has been moving into The Great Hunt. Here a couple new thoughts concerning this book.

#1 Moiraine visits some older Aes Sedai friends in Adeleas and Vandene who live in a small villiage. During her visit, a warded Draghkar attempts to kill both Lan and Moiraine. Originally, I thought that Lanfear was involved with that since she is so central to the book, and "Selene" leaves Rand for a time in Cairhien at the same time that Moiraine is attacked. However; after this re-read, I think differently. Lanfear doesn't really have a need for that kind of secrecy, nor would she have an interest in Moiraine at this time. Showing up, torturing and destroying them in person would be more her style, or at least torturing them while in the world of dreams, tel'aranrhiod. No, I don't think Lanfear was responsible. That leaves the Black Ajah, and I'm not sure exactly who would have taken an interest in Moiraine at that point (possibly Liandrin), but no one in the Black would know where Moiraine went at this point. It makes you wonder which Black Ajah initiated the attack, and how did she track Moiraine and Lan without their knowledge.

#2 When Egwene meets Elayne and Min for the first time in the white tower, one of Min's viewings is made known. She sees a bloody, severed hand when viewing Elayne, but states that it isn't hers. Here's my new thought. If you couple this viewing with the ones of Elayne with a bloody axe, and a white hot iron... it becomes more of a foretelling of the Last Battle. Say for instance that Rand ends up like some of the Fisher King legends, blinded (aka as the Essanek Cycle) and without both hands. At some point, perhaps while wielding Calandor, Rand will possibly be either forced to great destruction using Callandor, or someone might use Callandor AGAINST him causing him pain and agony through Callandor. Rand will not be able to let go; however, Elayne grabs an axe near at hand and severs Rand's other hand, leaving him handless. She heats up a piece of iron afterwards to cauterize the wound. That would explain it. Secondly, a blind, handless Rand would need help in order to sacrifice his life during the last battle. That's where Alivia comes in to "HELP Rand to die". He would obviously need assistance at that point. Part of my thinking for this is that it has been alluded to a few times in the books that Callandor leaves the user "vulnerable" for a time during use.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

My reread has been moving into The Great Hunt. Here a couple new thoughts concerning this book.

#1 Moiraine visits some older Aes Sedai friends in Adeleas and Vandene who live in a small villiage. During her visit, a warded Draghkar attempts to kill both Lan and Moiraine. Originally, I thought that Lanfear was involved with that since she is so central to the book, and "Selene" leaves Rand for a time in Cairhien at the same time that Moiraine is attacked. However; after this re-read, I think differently. Lanfear doesn't really have a need for that kind of secrecy, nor would she have an interest in Moiraine at this time. Showing up, torturing and destroying them in person would be more her style, or at least torturing them while in the world of dreams, tel'aranrhiod. No, I don't think Lanfear was responsible. That leaves the Black Ajah, and I'm not sure exactly who would have taken an interest in Moiraine at that point (possibly Liandrin), but no one in the Black would know where Moiraine went at this point. It makes you wonder which Black Ajah initiated the attack, and how did she track Moiraine and Lan without their knowledge.

Interesting little passage that one isn't it, I've read that one a lot.

Black ajah is most likely, so Liandrin is a good suspect, however I agree the tracking thing is the biggest part against it. Weird little sequence that part.

#2 When Egwene meets Elayne and Min for the first time in the white tower, one of Min's viewings is made known. She sees a bloody, severed hand when viewing Elayne, but states that it isn't hers. Here's my new thought. If you couple this viewing with the ones of Elayne with a bloody axe, and a white hot iron... it becomes more of a foretelling of the Last Battle. Say for instance that Rand ends up like some of the Fisher King legends, blinded (aka as the Essanek Cycle) and without both hands. At some point, perhaps while wielding Calandor, Rand will possibly be either forced to great destruction using Callandor, or someone might use Callandor AGAINST him causing him pain and agony through Callandor. Rand will not be able to let go; however, Elayne grabs an axe near at hand and severs Rand's other hand, leaving him handless. She heats up a piece of iron afterwards to cauterize the wound. That would explain it. Secondly, a blind, handless Rand would need help in order to sacrifice his life during the last battle. That's where Alivia comes in to "HELP Rand to die". He would obviously need assistance at that point. Part of my thinking for this is that it has been alluded to a few times in the books that Callandor leaves the user "vulnerable" for a time during use.

The fisher isn't missing both hands fyi. He has at least one hand, although I'm not sure about the other.

The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers.

However moving on from that, its possible it refers to losing another hand I guess. Some people like to think its about the hand he's lost already. Although I'm not sure I'd call what happened to him having a hand severed.

Myself I sort of like the idea of it being about Mat / Shen an Calhar and the Dragons as I like the symbolism.

 

[Kitan Tataru]

In Rand's first nightmare before he leaves the Two Rivers he dreams of being drawn to a black mountain that makes him feel despair and darkness...that's probably Shayol Ghul. The clouds are black and silver like in book 13.

I'll probably be posting more in this thread, I'm starting a reread (though I don't know if I'll finish before book 14 comes out). I'm charging my eBook reader right now so I can continue...that's the thing about normal books, they don't run out of battery!

 

[Darim Pelegro]

Nvm

 

[Avelina Ermen]

I just finished my reread of Eye of the World this morning. A few things really stuck out to me- I almost wish I had just carried around a piece of paper to jot down notes and such while I read!

One of the first things that really stuck out to me was how early on in the book, when Lan was giving a warning about wolves right before the group left the Two Rivers, Perrin was the one who was most nervous about the idea of meeting wolves. None of the others reacted as strongly as he did.

Also, I did not realize how much the book set up the rest of the series, particularly with the setting. At first read, there were just so many new places mentioned in passing that I had forgotten them when they were introduced more solidly later in the series. Or, the mention of the Maidens of the Spear. Things that become important later in the series, but don't play too much of a role in the first book or so.

And, at the very end of the book, when Rand is talking with Egwene, he is assuring her he would never touch the Source again. The tells her he wouldn't touch it, "Not if I have to cut off my own hand first." Sounds like additional foreshadowing there!