2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Moraine got the letter from the Wise Ones which told her she would meet them at the slopes of Chaindare, the Rhuidean thing..was just basically..her making a wild guess at why she would need to be there,

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Dang, those Wise Ones are starting to feel like a plot device. How many things did they set in motion in a few chapters?

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Eh, the only thing they really kicked off was Moraine going to Rhudean, Rand was gonna go there anyways, Egwene was gonna learn about the world of dreams too.

Of course they also sent the Aiel over the wall to look for he who comes with the dawn, but well the same could be said for Aes Sedai and all they did to set up for the dragon coming.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Ryu, I have never thought about the fact that attacking Illian is a bad idea, but I agree now that it makes total sense. I am not sure that Tear could win such a war, especially since Sammael is sure to use Shadowspawn as well...
It does mean, however, that Rand spends the next THREE books gathering troops, that will not be used, for attacking Illian

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Well think about how it might play out.

1. Instigate War with Illian
2. Have war with Illian killing Illianers and Tairens.
3. Unite the country after a bloody war which decimates both sides
4. Sammel says "screw it" uses Shadowspawn as the last line of defense, the Illianers might side with the Dragon with this revelation but you now have one of the larger cities in the world filled with Shadowspawn and now have to Besige it.

Using Aeil/Ashaman to assassinate the Forsaken was a much better plan, because the Forsaken have generally have gutted the ruling class of the cities, thus when you nuke one you create a void..for "The Prophecied one to save us all" to fill while he finds the proper rulers >.> it is a bloody shame Morgaise didn't go to the white tower after she got booted..things would have been easier.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Perhaps Rand said it to keep people in control, and not letting them plot?

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

I think you're on the right track there, Imzadi Sedai. A war with Illian is the one thing the Tairens want more than anything.

So he hands that to them for a handful of reasons:

It'll appease the Tairens;

The Tairens will focus on that, instead of the changes Rand wants to make that infuriate them so much;

Sammael is, of course, Rand's biggest opponent for the moment, so it serves as a "Declaration of War". He knows how much the Forsaken love to plot, especially against each other, so him appearing to focus exclusively on Sammael will make quite a splash among them; perhaps the others will hang back and hope Sammael gets taken out before moving against Rand.

 

[Wil Cambrae]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Anybody else notice that when you end on the seventh chapter it's always a cliffhanger that makes you want to read the next chapter?

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

That's why I switched to the chapter-a-day method. The cliffhangers aren't so bad when you only have to wait a day!

Chapter 16: I wasn't looking forward to this chapter. The beginning of the Faile-hating Saga. Tricking Loial still makes me so angry! Though the Nynaeve/Lan action redeemed it at least. I love those two so much.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Yes, I did enjoy how Lan acted there Total suprised Nynaeve

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

That's why I switched to the chapter-a-day method. The cliffhangers aren't so bad when you only have to wait a day!

Chapter 16: I wasn't looking forward to this chapter. The beginning of the Faile-hating Saga. Tricking Loial still makes me so angry! Though the Nynaeve/Lan action redeemed it at least. I love those two so much.

I want Loial to just smack both of them every time I read that part.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Chapter 17: Was it Liandrin who killed Sahra at the farm? Since the way she was killed sounded like her :shifty

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

I don't think so, since the killer knew details about stuff in the Tower, and Liandrin was not in the Tower at that time... I think it was Alviarin... Or maybe Galina...

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

I'm still working on catching up, but I hope to do some reading this weekend.

Chapter 2

• When and why was the Stone built?
• Tairens have "strange new hopes" -- what?
• "Rand isn't Lews Therin Telamon." -- at least he isn't yet.
• Why I dislike Faile for Perrin: He's always on guard and has to think through what he says. He can never be at ease.
• Perrin is tied to Rand right now -- pulled by the Pattern.
• Perrin blames the axe on Rand.
• Mat blames the cards on Rand.
• Rand blames the mirror-Rands on himself.
• I can't blame any of them for thinking Rand might be responsible. Remember, men who can channel are way out of any of their experience, so they know nothing about how his power works, how the magic works, anything. For all they know, he could be going mad and the Power could be reaching out and doing these things without him knowing it.

Chapter 3

• Rhuarc and Lan become friends in a moment. Or at least allies.
• Perrin finds it strange to think that Moiraine might have an outburst, but New Spring showed us that she has a wicked temper.
• Lan takes Rand's side.
• Bain & Chiad are tender with Rand, like mothers -- the mothering he gets from the Maidens is already starting even though he's not technically He Who Comes With the Dawn yet.

Chapter 4

• Thom's a dirty old man! "make them sigh." Uh-huh.
• Thom has an idea of how Mat's luck works.
• Thom helps Rand because of Owen.
• Mat can feel the Pattern tugging on him.
• Thom sees "a greatness" in Mat that Mat refuses to recognize.

Chapter 5

• Could Aviendha see the Power when Egwene & Elayne were using it?
• Did Aviendha see Amico before she was stilled? If not, how does she know Amico had the ageless face?
• First mention of Healing stilling. Their problem: They look at it as something lost as though the link is completely removed, like losing a limb (they use that comparison). It turns out that it's more like nerve damage, losing a connection to a limb, and Healing restores that connection.
• Why would Joiya have sweat on her forehead? She's not exactly fearful of E, E, & N. The ignore-the-temperature trick doesn't require the Power.

Chapter 6

• Does Moiraine know she'll marry Thom? How?
• Ahahahhahaaahahaha! Moiraine quotes prophecy and it applies to Rhuidean and the Aiel but she's twisting it to make it fit Illian.
• Egwene: "He will just have to be put straight." Total disregard for what Rand wants.
• Elayne loves Rand but barely knows him! But at least she acknowledges that.
• Nynaeve: "[Berelain's] the kind to hold hard to something she doesn't particularly want, just because someone else does want it." Is she right?

Chapter 7

• Moiraine tries so hard to be on Rand's side -- and at his side -- to "guide" him, and all she accomplished was to make him dig in his heels. It doesn't seem like she tries to have a conversation with him, or learn what he's thinking, just tries to push him into what she thinks is right -- which we, with our foreknowledge, know is a complete misinterpretation of the prophecy.
• It was particularly nasty of Elayne to whack Rand so hard in retaliation.
• Egwene: "I will accept it when it is proved to me." She can't just take Rand's word that saidin is so different from saidar. Does she ever link with a man and lead the channeling?
• Egwene doesn't believe Rand when he says he doesn't love her either. She's so full of herself that she assumes he must be lying.

Chapter 8

• Ha. Mat's promise at the end of the chapter was not at all what Egwene asked him for.

 

[Wil Cambrae]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Chapter 17: Was it Liandrin who killed Sahra at the farm? Since the way she was killed sounded like her :shifty

I'm actually thinking it was one of the Forsaken. The type of Compulsion seemed to be more powerful than Liandrin used. I can't quite remember which one was in the Tower at the time, or it might have been the one that we later saw was doing experiments on an Aes Sedai and Warder pair.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

That sounds about right Wil.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Going back a bit...

It is very much glossed over here, but Nyneave, Egwene and Elayne tied Mat up, with the power to get the letter he got from them in The Dragon Reborn. I am fully willing to bet they did not even ask him to give it back first, why would Mat want a letter from the Amyrlin, he hates Aes Sedai and wants nothing to do with them, I was frankly surprised the first time I read this book that he kept the thing and did not just use it as toilet paper.

They say they asked and Mat didn't contradict. Also, that letter is very powerful. Why just toss away something like that, regardless of your feelings about Aes Sedai?

I really hate the way women throw around men, literally and figuratively. Jordan basically took the sexism in our world and switched the genders around, so men are the ones being patted on the head and sent on their way rather than women. It bothers me no less than real-world sexism.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

I really hate the way women throw around men, literally and figuratively. Jordan basically took the sexism in our world and switched the genders around, so men are the ones being patted on the head and sent on their way rather than women. It bothers me no less than real-world sexism.

I think that is why he did it, to show..some of the gigantic hypocrisy that happens with sexism from women towards men in the real world. Just imagine how the internet would react to how Mat gets treated by Tylin if the genders were reversed, and how he reacts to it himself later on.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

Eh, I disagree that there's an issue with sexism from women to men in the real world.

And the whole Mat and Tylin thing...whoo. Yeah. That's scary and creepy and it was meant to get a laugh and Mat to get his comeuppance, but ... yeah. Problematic.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 15-21

I think what Ryu means Mother, is that a scene like that would have gotten stronger reactions if Tylin was the male and Mat the female...

Just look at the reactions after this season of Game of Thrones