2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    Chapter 50:
    -Rand still isn't certain he can trust Moiraine. :rolleyes
    -It's an Aiel belief that a forced apology is no apology. I like the Aiel. :)
    -It makes sense why Rand's so paranoid sometimes... but it does frustrate me how blind he can be to the people around him. He accuses the Wise Ones of spying on him and wants to know what they want and Melaine, quite rightly, snaps at him, saying that they just want to save the Aiel given the prophecies that only a remnant of a remnant will remain.
    -What was Melaine willing to 'lay' to make Rand know their blood for his? :scratch

    Chapter 51:
    -I like how Egeanin becomes friends with Nynaeve and Elayne. It's a bit spoiled in a bit once they realize she's Seanchan, but I can definitely imagine their relief in finding a friend in Tanchico given all the stress they must be under. It must be nice to just have someone to chat with and just enjoy the company.
    -Why was Egeanin so fast to want to attack Domon? :blink I mean, I know they'd had dealings in the past, but I can't think of a reason she'd want to attack him on sight. Unless she was just worried he'll reveal who she is.
    -The Panarch's 'love' for ice peppers has apparently become a widespread story throughout Tanchico.
    -Elayne thinks Thom's just a foolish bard. :facepalm

    Chapter 52:
    -I really wish Elayne would've told people how weird her two letters to Rand were. (seriously... what is with those letters? :blink) Nynaeve advises Egwene to tell Rand to read the letters. They think they're probably just embarrassingly intimate love letters.
    -Nynaeve advises the Wise Ones that Egwene's always been stubborn. That's funny coming from her. :p
    -I liked Egwene's parting words:
    :lol
    -Nynaeve ignores Birgitte when she first appears. Probably rather frustrating for Birgitte who's risking a lot to break the precepts and help Nynaeve.
    -It takes them forever to realize what the male a'dam is. Nynaeve even thinks to herself "How can jewelry be dangerous to Rand?" :rolleyes Especially with part of it being a collar, you'd think the association would be obvious.
    -When Egeanin calmly suggests killing the man who ambushed them, Thom's the only one who seems to consider actually doing it. :p

    Chapter 53:
    -Bain and Chiad force Gaul to accept their help by threatening to make him gai'shain. :lol
    -Slayer looks like Isam in tel'aran'rhiod, but like Luc in the waking world.
    -Perrin shot Slayer! Makes it really obvious that Luc = Slayer. Given how strong Slayer is and how loooonnggg it takes Perrin actually defeat him, I'm impressed he managed to hurt him this early. (it's been awhile since I first read this book so I'd forgotten :p ) That's what Slayer gets for underestimating Perrin.

    Chapter 54:

    -Morgase and Elayne are good rulers who care about their people. Elayne is outraged when she sees how much extra food there is in the Panarch's Palace.
    -And then Elayne shows us how out-of-touch she is by curtsying to the chef in the same way that she's used to a servant curtsying to the daughter heir. :lol
    -Elayne didn't remember exactly what Nynaeve had told her about Amathera in tel'aran'rhiod, so when she hears bawdy songs coming from the room, she thinks at first that it can't be the Panarch.
    -Nynaeve looks at the male a'dam, thinks that it's a collar that the Black Ajah want to use to control Rand... and still doesn't realize it's an a'dam.
    -Moghedien probably used the True Power to disappear. Why didn't she do it earlier when balefire was flying around everywhere?

    Chapter 55:
    -The Two Rivers is so bad-ass! :joy :D Everything Rhed said!

    Chapter 56:
    -Why are the trollocs shouting 'Isam'? :blink Is it Fain's influence?
    -I love how excited Faile is to lead an army. :lol
    -Faile makes Perrin promise to always tell her when he's angry... but doesn't make the same promise herself. :rolleyes
    -Fain doesn't realize the Waygate's been closed and doesn't understand why the trollocs have stopped coming.
    -Why does Fain hate Isam so much?
    -Fain remembers Manetheren causing problems to him long ago as Mordeth.

    Chapter 57:
    -The Maidens are fiercely protective of their relationship with Rand.
    -Oosquai is made from maize.
    -One of Rhuarc's people is described as "a green-eyed fellow who looked as if his face had been used to pound fence posts". :rofl
    -One of Mat's coins rolls away improbably and he blames Rand on it. He still refuses to acknowledge his own ta'veren nature.
    -Modern Aiel men don't sing other than battle songs and laments. A reference to Aiel singing from the before the Breaking when Aiel singing was renowned? Did that start as a way to separate themselves from the tuatha'an?
    -Asmodean arranged the Draghkar as well as Couladin's dragon tattoos to distract Rand.
    -It's interesting seeing the first instances of someone describing Gateways.

    Chapter 58:
    -Asmodean Skims rather than Travels to Rhuidean.
    -Rand realizes just how dangerous Gateways are as he clips the heel of his boot off in one. :blink
    -Rand rolls into the redstone doorframe... good thing he didn't accidentally roll into it.
    -So much destruction in the battle between Asmodean and Rand. At least the glass pillars survive. But Avendesora... :(
    -Asmodean has black wires connecting him to the Dark One.
    -The fog that had hovered above Rhuidean since it was first put in place by the Aes Sedai dissipates and mountains are leveled. A glimpse of what the Breaking must have been like. We hear about how much the land altered during the visions Rand sees of his Aiel ancestors. It's kinda interesting to see 'in person' here how much can be done just with two (granted, very powerful) male channelers.
    -Lanfear tells Rand she's seen a broken version of the ter'angreal that links to the Choedan Kal. That would probably kill or at least still anyone who tried to use it.
    -Lanfear rages when she hears Asmodean use her old name.
    -Rand has a good point. How did Lanfear survive the explosion when they bored into the Dark One's prison?
    -Asmodean is reluctant to give Rand his real name.

    Prologue:
    -Elaida thinks the Dragon Reborn needs to be 'safely shielded' in the Tower. :blink Ummm... that doesn't make much sense. I realize they would then 'release' him to fight the Last Battle, but how do they expect him to be ready to do so if he never gets any practice with Channeling and can never fulfill any of the prophecies? Just because making sure men can't channel is the focus of your Ajah (which is a very important thing to do in the post-Breaking world) that doesn't mean that's the appropriate way to handle the Dragon Reborn. :|
    -
    Does Alviarian know who Fain is? Does Fain know she's Black Ajah? He doesn't seem to react well to her. "his upper lip fluttered in a half-snarl at her slim back."
    -Fain can't risk returning to Aridhol/Shadar Logoth.
    -Who is the old man we see through Graendal's Gateway?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  2. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    :facepalm Of course! That's why it's so horrible: it's white lightning. :x

    My theory: Once they took up spears, the Aiel couldn't be a part of any singing rituals that the Jenn may still have been performing. So they turned to the one area that set them apart from the Jenn: battle. They could sing in battle, where the Jenn didn't go to battle, and the Aiel couldn't perform the peaceful rituals.

    It's called a necklace and bracelets, though, rather than a collar and cuffs, and doesn't have the chain between. I think that's why it took so long for them to connect the dots. It's *just* different enough for the link to be not obvious. When Nynaeve thinks about it being a collar, she is probably thinking metaphorically, not as a literal collar (not yet).
     
  3. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    I like that!
     
  4. Murun

    Murun

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    Some scattered notes on TSR – yes, too late …

    Ch.6, Nynaeve:
    One would wish she was aways that impassionetely resonable.

    Ch 20, with the explanation of the „legends fade to myths“ every book starts with. Stories are not just forgotten, but change in the transmission – we'll see that happen XL in Rhuidean.
    Just sweet. Hindsight makes for good predictions.

    Ch 21 is always a pleasure to remember, with Moiraine being as manpulative as probably only she (and Master Merrilin) can be, and still gaining nothing from it. And then demanding trust. - Cut to TFoH ch.2: In spite of [one coud fill in quite lot here], she basically sees Rand as a naughty boy who needs his ears boxed. Makes her life difficult.- At some later point she says „I wish those Wise Ones were all stronger & Tower-trained“ - well, what about teaching them some skills, say, in return for their hospitality? No, and neither does Egwene, except some talking to Aviendha. Some skills – like linking – seep mysteriously trough early in ACoS. How Sorilea learnt the Travelling weave we will probably never find out. (Some comments point to Egwene, but it just does not fit her timeline / storyline.)
    EDIT: I was wrong. There are two (just two) sentences in the WH Prologue:
    Looks like a quick fix for all I can see, and I still have timeline problems.

    Ch. 28: Birgitte recognizes Perrin from the battle at Falme, and impressive as she is, Perrin can't remember. „I've met you before somewhere, I think.“ Oops. Mat in Salidar has a better excuse – just so many faces from so many memories. But she accepts his being a wolfbrother readily as an explanation for how he is in TAR. And Hopper neither sees nor hears her – how does that work?

    Ch. 29: Another scene to read again and again. A pity Jordan used the thing with the cup again (in LoC), but perhaps he thought it would show how important Faile has become to Perrin. In which case one would echo Hopper: „You are here too strongly!“

    See Aiel flirting: Banter & boasting in ch. 18; playing games in ch. 41 (and Gaul, not quite amused, grumbles he should take Chiad home as gai'shain, ch. 42); when Loial and Gaul return from the waygate (ch. 53), Chiad threatens the reverse:
    - the maximm ji way of taking gai'shain.
    Faile, obviously, is in on this and laughs. And then, Chiad cares for him and wants to stay with him in the more dangerous place (Ch. 53), and they end up fighting back to back (ch. 56).
    We'll have more of these three, but it's nice beginning.

    „You coddle girls in the Tower“, Melaine says (ch. 23), and Egwene disagrees. Yes, novices and acepted have to follow strict rules, have to do chores etc., they don't have an easy life at the Tower.
    Still, the main objective is NOT for them learning to channel the Power, but breakng them to the corportae identity of the WT, which under the name of „Servants“ is at best a fairly well-paid consultancy, and at worst a meddlesome and oppressive political power.
    Could this change? Yes, gradually, but my guess is that under Cadsuane as Amyrlin it won't. Her demand for „better training“ will provide a convenient way to get rid of many of the untypical novices Egwene took in – I hope they'll find a useful and satisfying career with the Kin. A Cultural Revolution – Serve the people! Bomb the HQ! Get up the mountains and down to the valleys! (as the lovely - and deceptive - Chinese slogans went) – just won't happen, and so Aes Sedai will never really become part of the community.
    Interesting support for this view may be the scene of Egwenes testing for accepted in TDR where Elaida calls her a „wilder at heart“ and predicts she'll never really fit in. Not quite without reason, when you consider how much time she spent in and out of the Tower.
    This of course is a problem the Wise Ones do not have and probably don't see. Being Aiel is an unequivocal identity you carry from birth, and if you happen to become a Wise One, it goes without saying that you will have to have the best interest of sept, clan and Aiel in general in mind (and be pretty busy balancing them against each other).
    A sidethought: Saidin being clean, I guess the Aiel will send some guys to the BT to learn as much as they can, then have them set up their own training.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  5. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    What thing with a cup? I can't remember. :scratch
     
  6. Murun

    Murun

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising to the end! Plus Pro of FoH

    Bran al'Vere gives Perrin a silver cup with apple brandy before he tells him Perrin's family has been killed; Perrin crushes it hearing the news. - In LoC, Davram Bashere offers Perrin wine and then threatens to take Faile away (because she's still a minor according to Saldean customs and had no parental consent for the marriage). And Perrin once more ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  7. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Oh, right! Thanks. I hadn't caught that.