2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7



Thanks you two

 

[Wil Cambrae]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

FYI, I'll for sure be behind. I've got a book I need to read for my *other* book club. But it's short and is looking to be a fast read.

Yeah, I'm trying to reread most of Brandon's books and finish of The Dresden Files before JordanCon next year.... I hope I'll make it

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

Well, moving along...

• Chapter 2
  
  Ah, the first bubble of evil... This is pretty messed-up, scary stuff. Perrin's battle with his axe is pretty symbolic, considering how he feels about the weapon. Faile has no logical reason to be upset with Perrin for his actions, but that never stops her! In this case though, she prides herself on being able to protect herself, never needing someone to protect her. This whole thing sort of shatters that paradigm.
  
  Mat's battle isn't particularly epic or anything, but the events surrounding it add a lot to his character for this point in the story.
  
  Rand is almost killed... by himself! Foreshadowing?
  
  
• Chapter 4
  
  Mat's willingness to blame Rand for the bubble of evil bothers me. The stigma of a man who can channel is ingrained in Mat the most, but his certainty that the attacking cards were caused by Rand using Saidin to kill his friends... it hurts me.
  
  I think Thom trying so hard to help Rand is just genuine friendship, coupled with the whole Owyn thing. If he can protect Rand, he feels like he can make up for failing to protect his nephew. You could easily say that the Pattern is the cause of Thom's actions here, but I prefer to see it as loyalty for a friend.
  
  
• Chapter 5
  
  The plots of the Black Ajah are pretty convoluted. I think Amico is telling the truth, even though the Black Ajah all swear oaths not to betray any information, I assume her stilling severs these oaths. It comes up at some point that oaths to the Dark One given by a channeler are as strong as an oath on the Oath Rod; stilling most likely removes those oaths, just like it does with the Oath Rod.
  
  
• Chapter 6
  
  Ryu, I think people believe "Lord Gaebril" came from "out Baerlon way". I don't think it's fair to compare his situation with Perrin, considering the Compulsion involved. I'm not certain of all the details though, this is going on my list of things to watch out for; we'll (hopefully) get some answers as we move along the series.
  
  
• Chapter 7
  
  The information about the One Power we get here is quite revealing, especially about men being able to sense women channeling. In the first few books, a lot of information about channeling, the One Power, and the Five Powers is pretty vague at times. But now we're finally learning some of the mechanics of it, yay!

I'm guessing the group has fallen a bit behind, so I've only posted my notes for the first week of chapters. I've put my read-through on pause, until I'm sure where everyone is at.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

In this case though, she prides herself on being able to protect herself, never needing someone to protect her. This whole thing sort of shatters that paradigm.

The thing is, it had nothing to do with Protecting her from danger.

She was, outright tangibly IN THE WAY.

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

That's the point exactly. I can see why that would upset Faile.

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

I think Amico is telling the truth, even though the Black Ajah all swear oaths not to betray any information, I assume her stilling severs these oaths. It comes up at some point that oaths to the Dark One given by a channeler are as strong as an oath on the Oath Rod; stilling most likely removes those oaths, just like it does with the Oath Rod.

We see later that Verin's oath forbid her from speaking of the Black Ajah's plots until the moment of her death. But she could still Channel so the oath was still binding. I think it is safe to assume that for Channelers the dark oaths work the same as the Three Oaths, which we know are severed when a person loses the ability to Channel (as we see with Siuan and Leanne later).

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

(Mother you mentioned putting your reading on hold. Are we moving on to the next chapters? I, for one, am ready to start chapter 8.)

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 1-7

We should move on with reading, Mother with catch up on us later I did finish chapter 8 today.

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Chapter 8... Woo-hoo, we get Elayne as a viewpoint character :nono.

Mat and Egwene, that's a good conversation, although I feel like he's planning to deliberately side-step his word, to avoid getting Moiraine involved. This is tied-in with the three books Rand is reading, although it isn't enough of a hint to draw a straight line to each other. I do like scholarly Rand, especially compared to Angry King Rand. I can relate, plenty of times I would rather read a book than deal with stubborn jerks.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Yes, don't wait on me! I'm jumping into book 4 today. (Yay!)

Gaebril is definitely "from" Baerlon, or Baerlonish.

Didn't the Black Ajah swear the Dark Oaths on the same Oath Rod as the Aes Sedai Oaths?

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

About the Black Ajah oaths, Mother (This excerpt is from The Gathering Storm):

Spoiler

When Verin confesses everything to Egwene, she imtimates that the Black Ajah oaths aren't taken on a Binding Rod.

"I will admit that the poison was a backup plan," Verin said. "I am not eager for death; there are still things I need to do. Fortunately, I have set several of them in motion to be... seen to, in case I do not return. Regardless, my first plan was to find the Oath Rod, then see if I could use it to remove the Great Lord's oaths. The Oath Rod appears to have gone missing, unfortunately."

Saerin, Egwene thought, and the others. They must have taken it again. "I'm sorry, Verin," she said.

"It might not have worked anyway," Verin said, settling back on the bed, arranging the pillow behind her streaked brown hair. "The process of making those oaths to the Great Lord was... distinctive"

By the way, I'm glad you're back with us Mother. Our read-along loses focus without your guidance and meticulous notes .

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Ah, interesting. I wonder if we'll learn how the BA took the Dark Oaths in the Encyclopedia. *counting down to November*

 

[Cold Manshima]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Although I can't think of any evidence to back this up, my best guess is some sort of ritual sacrifice. Either that or going into Shayol Ghul and swearing the oaths right at the Bore. Or both.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

I thought the prophecy at the front of the book was beautiful. Terrifying, but beautiful. Especially this line: He shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, and the world shall scream in the pain of salvation.

I love the idea of Rand catching the Shadow in his hands.

Chapter 1: Min

• "Any Aes Sedai would hung down a man who could channel, now; of the seven Ajahs, the Red did little else." What else does the Red do? Do other Ajahs take an active role in hunting men who can channel? Do we see evidence of this, other than Cadsuane, who's a fricking force of nature?
• Min only sees auras sometimes -- not often. It's hard to remember this since she hangs out with people more likely to have auras: ta'veren, Aes Sedai, and people with big roles in the Pattern.
• Gawyn is genuinely close to Galad and sees no fault in him.
• Gawyn knows something is brewing in the Tower, that something is off, wrong.
• Suian and Moiraine try so hard to control Rand.
• Suian has no idea ho many Black Ajah there are.
• Ha: Min's horror at being made over into Elmindreda.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

I really feel for Min in that situation, because I would feel EXACTLY the same way I hate having to dress up, especially when I was a teenager and it was my mom that decided what I was wearing. (Because otherwise I would totally show up to every occasion in jeans )

 

[Kassina Tendar]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Also, good job there Siuan, listening to the girl who you know can see visions of the future..and ignoring that a fight might be coming to the tower.

Yeah... :facepalm I realize that with Min's viewings, there's not really anything you can do to stop it. But she only saw specific deaths. There are likely other deaths/injuries/kidnappings that could have been prevented if Siuan was more conscious of it. :\ Cold made a good point (related to the discussion of whether to study prophecies) that Siuan couldn't be certain that her actions wouldn't expedite the battle. From Min's PoV at least, though, it almost seems like Siuan doubts her viewings. :rolleyes I hope that's not the case... at least from the reader's PoV, it's frustrating when people don't trust Min's viewings because just like her we know they're set in stone.

Also you see Thom trying to help Rand keep the Lords of Tear in check, I don't think this is one of thoes Ta'veren things, I think this is the fact that Thom while he would never admit it, he loves to play De'esDemar, that it helps Rand is just a bonus.

My thoughts exactly. It seems like such a comfortable role for him and he was probably glad to be able to get back into it. It's something he's good at and probably enjoys. besides, he gets to help Rand and pay back a bit of his perceived debt in regards to his nephew.

So here is an interesting thing, Amico after being stilled gives away the plot that the Black Ajah, and presumably The Forsaken or the Dark one have, we see foreshadowing that the Black Oaths are taken on the Oath Rod, I wonder how Dark Friends are bound to the Shadow since there is the only one Rod, or are the non Channeler Dark Friends basically bullied into keeping their oaths.

I was under the impression that Oath Rod only worked for channelers. Given the quote about the distinctive method of swearing an oath to the Dark One, it's like they have a separate method that works for both channelers and non-channelers. More streamlined that way.

Ah, Dain Bornhald. Such an erratic figure; I always fancied that his drinking and hatred were a result of his prolonged interactions with Ordeith. You've got to hand it to Ordeith, he certainly knew which group to wriggle into. The Whitecloaks are certainly ripe for the whole "use the Shadow's own tactics against them", when you look at what the Questioners are always up to. Also, we see the Tinkers moving towards the Two Rivers as well, which is kind of a curious choice for them. Possibly just lingering effects of Perrin as Ta'veren, sweeping threads of the Pattern in his wake?

Mat's willingness to blame Rand for the bubble of evil bothers me. The stigma of a man who can channel is ingrained in Mat the most, but his certainty that the attacking cards were caused by Rand using Saidin to kill his friends... it hurts me.

Yeah, that's frustrating. :\ Perrin did the same thing too, at first. He just dealt with it differently. Mat kind of ran away and didn't want anything to do with Rand after that, while Perrin was going to Rand's chambers to confront him about it. So Perrin then got to hear that this wasn't Rand's doing, while Mat didn't. But that is quite a leap to imagine that Rand did it on purpose. :\ I mean, he may be destined to go mad (and Lews Therin did kill a lot of people when that happened), but Mat seems to greatly overestimate Rand's madness if he thinks Rand was doing something intentionally to target Mat.

I thought the prophecy at the front of the book was beautiful. Terrifying, but beautiful. Especially this line: He shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, and the world shall scream in the pain of salvation.

Yeah, I ended up reading that prophecy over a few times when I started the book last week just 'cause I liked it so much.

I'm up-to-date on my reading, but will post my chapter breakdown of stuff later.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

I agree with the comments about chapter one being a prologue. SO MANY VIEWPOINTS.

I laughed at Rand thinking one or all of the Forsaken were out to kill him. At least he's no longer thinking he's defeating the Dark One constantly!

I already got caught up enough in this book that I lost track of where chapter 7 ended and read straight through to chapter 9.

In hindsight, I'm really impressed at how Rand was handling the Tairen lords on his own. Obviously he wasn't taking advice from Moiraine much but it sounds like he got some help from Thom maybe and later from Elayne.

Moiraine's interpretation of the prophecy sounded so reasonable the first time around, but now I just want to :desk and shake them until they talk to an Aiel clan chief or Wise One!

 

[Wil Cambrae]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

I wonder if Amico didn't have her oath to TDO stripped away like Suian did when she was stilled. Because of that happening she was no longer bound by the Three Oaths.

Another way to interpret the prophecy about Rand could be hinting at his Cleansing of the Taint

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Oh, which one Wil?

When Rand met Lanfear, I think it's first time Lews Therin take over and talk right? Or am I senile?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 8-14

Wil, I really like that interpretation, I hadn't thought of that :shifty

And Imz, yes, I think it is...