The Turning of the Wheel

[Biff]

Okay, I'm no good at Buddhist philosophy. So help me out.

I really hate the idea that the wheel will turn, and this whole ordeal will eventually happen again. Are all these guys/gals destined to keep being churned out in the Pattern for all eternity, learning the same lessons about life and humanity and love and darkness?

Is there no eternal rest for the souls of these characters?

Are there infinite variations of the Last Battle's outcome? If so, wouldn't some of those be the Dark One dying or the Pattern being destroyed?

I find at least some sense of finality in Rand's new patch on the prison - the last one was done 3,000 years ago in a flawed way. Does the new patch just delay the process longer until the new Breaking? Or is it permanent?

I'm just left with a very unsatisfied feeling in the pit of my stomach, and want some sort of resolution to the battle that's been happening in the last 14 books. I would hate to exist in a world where I'm fighting the same battles all the time, for eternity.

I'm sure people have posted this before, but I'm new. Forgive me.

 

[Biff]

After all, isn't infinite choice and variety essentially the same thing as no choice and variety? You're destined to make all possible choices, which boils down to you having no say in any choice at all.

 

[Matteo al'Snow]

I think when Rand fixed the bore he fixed it back to the way it was b4 Lanfear drilled the bore. And likewise it will only be opened again if someone is power hungry and wants a grander power to be established.

 

[Eluial Aldaran]

Okay, I'm no good at Buddhist philosophy. So help me out.

I really hate the idea that the wheel will turn, and this whole ordeal will eventually happen again. Are all these guys/gals destined to keep being churned out in the Pattern for all eternity, learning the same lessons about life and humanity and love and darkness?

Is there no eternal rest for the souls of these characters?

Are there infinite variations of the Last Battle's outcome? If so, wouldn't some of those be the Dark One dying or the Pattern being destroyed?

I find at least some sense of finality in Rand's new patch on the prison - the last one was done 3,000 years ago in a flawed way. Does the new patch just delay the process longer until the new Breaking? Or is it permanent?

I'm just left with a very unsatisfied feeling in the pit of my stomach, and want some sort of resolution to the battle that's been happening in the last 14 books. I would hate to exist in a world where I'm fighting the same battles all the time, for eternity.

I'm sure people have posted this before, but I'm new. Forgive me.

After all, isn't infinite choice and variety essentially the same thing as no choice and variety? You're destined to make all possible choices, which boils down to you having no say in any choice at all.

I'm definitely no expert in Buddhist philosophy myself, but my understanding was that while WoT borrows some Buddhist elements (such as reincarnation -- well, sort of), that there are some pretty major differences between the metaphysics of the WoT and Buddhist concepts of the world.

For the part about choice and variety, I'd say, no, they're not at all the same thing. In a lot of ways, it's the same mistake people make when talking about determinism and free will. Perhaps you are indeed destined to make every single choice, but in each turning of the Wheel, you are presented with the ability to make any particular choice you're talking about. So, for example, every time you are reborn you have the choice to either turn to the dark one or not. Perhaps in some incarnations you will and in others you won't, but each time you have the choice to do so or not to do so.

I think when Rand fixed the bore he fixed it back to the way it was b4 Lanfear drilled the bore. And likewise it will only be opened again if someone is power hungry and wants a grander power to be established.

Which will happen again. Time is circular, and so all major events (which the drill of the bore certainly is one) are destined to be repeated again, from the perspective of someone living inside the Wheel.

I would hate to exist in a world where I'm fighting the same battles all the time, for eternity.

As for this. Sorry, bud, but you already do. Even in a world like ours, where time is linear(ish), we are always repeating the same battles. People don't learn from history and so we fight the same pointless wars time and again. In WoT it's just a little more literal.

 

[CitezenOfAringill]

So, Ishy was right all along. The logical thing to do is to keep serving the Dark one (and hope you don't get balefired)

 

[Mattrim al'Korin]

No, the logical thing to do is stick to your principles, and make the best out of life. Details like the level of technology and the rise and fall of nations, will always change, but the quality of life depends on our personal choices.

 

[Miliham Rastoubel]

You stumbled into the logci path that put Ishamael firmly into the Dark Ones's Service. If all that happens is destined to repeat, the only way to break the cycle is to remove the Wheel. Inevitably, the Dark One will gain hold of someone who can surpass themselves and create the end of the wheel.

 

[Mattrim al'Korin]

But what is it that Ishamael (or any of the Forsaken, for that matter) thinks that he owes to the Dark One? If anyone can avoid the assassins of the shadow, live long enough to balance out the evil deeds he has done, and live a "normal", peaceful life, it's him.

 

[Miliham Rastoubel]

He doesn't owe it to the Dark One. He simply has accepted that inevitably the Dark One will destory the Pattern, and to win he would have to be with the Dark One.

 

[Leira Galene]

He's a great nihilist.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Actually, there was a nice theory running around here that the DO CAN'T win.
I don't remember all the details, but basically it claimed that the DO lives out side the pattern, and therefor outside of time. While the wheel turns and 7 ages pass for humans, he basically fights just once.

 

[Almira ni'Caldazare]

I had a psychology professor who would say that the Dark One is not really trying to win: that his psych only wants the title or identity that comes with fighting the Creator.