The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

*puts TVT Assistant Editor hat on*

You might like reading Atarah's article on Ingtar. She does a series on minor characters. It's pretty awesome.

And, Siuan is my second favorite character in the entire series.

 

[Toral Delvar]

Thoughts on the first part of this set
I felt these chapters dragged a little. Too much hiding and waiting, though we do get some information about prophecy, which I always enjoy.
Chapter 7
Suian heals Mat, with the help of 4 others. Suian herself has virtually no ability at Healing, but this does not seem to be Healing in a traditional sense
Verin has a touch of gray in her hair. “For an Aes Sedai, it meant she was very old indeed.” Verin is actually not very old indeed by Aes Sedai standards – She was born 849, so is only about 150
Suian asks why was Fain important enough to rescue – do we ever find out?
Verin and Moiraine are both open to the idea of Hawkwing’s descendants returning, if doubtful – something that seems fairly rare
Verin believes that Suian and Moiraine would be stilled if the Hall found out what they had done with Rand. Suian later comes to believe this is not the case, but it does turn out this was correct.
What was the “first clue” Verin had 20 years ago? Possibly the older Aes Sedai being recalled and dying mysteriously. Though as Black Ajah, she might have actually known from them that the Dragon had been reborn (side note here, this is also what I had in the notes section for this chapter)
Perrin thinks he doesn’t understand women, “not like Rand” – we see this from the other boys throughout the series, though possibly Mat isn’t quite so self indulgent on this
We see Lan has changed even more – he is on Rand’s side a little, even if he justifies it by claiming he trained Rand so Rand’s behaviour reflects on him.
Chapter 8
This is a pretty busy chapter, flitting from one point of view to another. Probably the most interesting of this batch.
Leane says “I suppose the Blacksmith will wear a Crown and speak in High Chant” – As Faile is Queen of Saldaea, it’s possible Perrin gets a crown, but he never speaks in High Chant
Moiraine has somehow learned of Tam’s history, presumably during her earlier absence
Rand knows an Aes Sedai cannot lie, but still doesn’t believe whe Suian says he is the Dragon Reborn
“Of the ancient blood, raided by the Old Blood” – Aiel and Two Rivers. What are the other areas where the Old blood is strong? Are there really places that have been isolated for a couple of thousand years like the Two Rivers, or is she just trying to justify to herself not seeing the obvious?
What does Verin mean “much stronger than expected” – not strength in the Power, but it’s an odd thing to say about strength of will
Nynaeve’s Listening to the Wind ability is continuing to develop. Not sure why, as she hasn’t been practicing chanelling
Lan gives her his ring and promises to come when called – which would surely involve going against Moiraine’s wishes
Egwene has begun to accept that she won’t marry Rand
Rand is concerned about being gentled – would this really hurt him? It’s not like he has really experienced being a channeller
Chapter 9
Was the arrow aimed at Siuan or Rand?
Changu and Nidao went with Fain – were they Darkfriends, or just corrupted by being around him?
We meet Hurin, and another novel non Power related ability – sniffing. We’ve already seen Wolfbrothers and Min’s visions, and are about to see Dreaming. Is that all the strange Talents?
Someone is after Domon – probably for the Seal, though I don’t know how they know he has it. It does seem that the Shadow has been trying to get it from the moment he acquired it. The plot they try and involve him in seems unlikely – I assume they were expecting him to be greedier and more dishonourable than he actually is
The small age-dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword sounds like a potential male angreal
Chapter 10
We are told Aiel will not touch a sword – though we probably already knew this from the Green Man’s comments in book one
They see a woman in a window – Lanfear, though no one realizes. Her behaviour is just odd
Masema hates Rand because he thinks Rand is Aiel – does this later tie into his instability when Rand brings an Aiel army into the Westlands?
Ingtar is bitter about how humanity is failing
Rand falls into a trap – a repeating scene. Likely laid by Fain, as he does this later. He escapes by reaching for the Power
A Myrddraal is nailed up. Fain did it

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Oh, right, the meeting with the Amyrlin isn't until this weeks chapters
Well, in any way, it is among my favourite scenes, at least from this book.

I think Changu and Nidao was just corrupted by Fain. It is mentioned how they had changed so much since he was first placed there, and they had saved Agelmars life etc...
And yes, I think that the speech from Ingtar here about how humanity is failing is the reason he became a Darkfriend. Pessimism and realism like that can destroy many.
I thought the trap was from Lanfear? Though I don't know what her motives would be... But we don't see Fain having that kind of Power...

 

[Toral Delvar]

We see it later in Far Madding when he kills one of the rogue Asha’man. It does seem very early for him to be showing such a sophisticated use of his ability though

 

[Merena Orithana]

I'm so glad we are rereading these! There is a ton that I didn't remember from my last read.

Like Liandrin's antics - I didn't pick up on how odd they were.

Leane says “I suppose the Blacksmith will wear a Crown and speak in High Chant” – As Faile is Queen of Saldaea, it’s possible Perrin gets a crown, but he never speaks in High Chant

I will have to remember this for the future Perrin chapters - that would be odd for him to do one thing, but not the other...
Isn't he at one point almost king of the manetheren area?

Was the arrow aimed at Siuan or Rand

Do we ever figure out who the archer was?

Also - there is alot of description of the inn where Bayle meets the Darkfriends. The Badger one. Do we see that same inn later on in the series?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I suspect the archer was a Gray Man. Ingtar seemed to hint at that anyway. The likely target was Rand.

The Badger Inn is the same one Moiraine et al stays in when they go to Illian in the third book, but I don't think it comes back after that.

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

The lore behind the name makes me so curious every time it's described. "Easing the Badger." No one knows what the heck it means, but it's looked like that for longer than anyone remembers.

Okay, I'm going to need more info. :rofl

 

[Toral Delvar]

Like Liandrin's antics - I didn't pick up on how odd they were

I’ll pay attention when she speaks, but I don’t think she lies in this book, even when she tricks Egwene and friends out of the Tower.

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

I agree with you, Toral. Liandrin always gave me the creeps, but even on re-reads, I couldn't tell exactly where to point to for a lie or something to excitedly scream at the girls that they were in danger until they were being led out of the Tower. Liandrin is a sneaky one.

 

[Merena Orithana]

The lore behind the name makes me so curious every time it's described. "Easing the Badger." No one knows what the heck it means, but it's looked like that for longer than anyone remembers.

Okay, I'm going to need more info

Exactly!

I went to the Google and found this:
https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='easing the badger'

Apparently it was an inside joke between Robert and Harriet?

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Prologue
Bors identifies several people. An Illianer, a Tairen High Lord, a Shienaran Lord, a member of the Andoran Queen’s Guard, two Aes Sedai, a Sea Folk man and a Tinker. I don’t think we explicitly learn who any of them are, but we did get confirmation on some of them from outside sources for a couple. I do wonder how a Tinker manages to be a Darkfriend – they don’t associate with anyone outside the Tua’athon ever.
Bors hates Aes Sedai. We will see more of this – People become Darkfriends, and are hoping to see the world destroyed, ruled by people who can channel and the vast majority of people suffer endlessly, but still hold on to their earlier values.
Ba’alzamon is masked – probably because Rand burned him and he has no one he can trust to Heal him. Despite obviously being a man, when told it is Ba’alzamon, Bors doesn’t adjust his thoughts on who Ba’alzamon is, and assumes it is the Dark One somehow standing before him.
Bors thinks he could be chosen as a new Dreadlord – does he think he will be able to channel, or just that “Dreadlord” as a term for someone who is a high ranking Darkfriend
Ba’alzamon now knows who Rand is, but Mat and Perrin are still important.
What was the bend where Ba’alzamon thought Rand could be turned? I don’t think we ever see anything that even hinted at this being close to a possibility
All the attendees are given tasks to perform. We see some of Bors, and for others, such as a High Lord, or Aes Sedai, it’s easy to imagine what they could be, but the Sea Folk man, or even more, the Tinker? I really can’t imagine, unless for the Tinker, this is supposed to make us suspicious of Aram when he turns up again much later.
We are told that the Seanchan have returned, but at this point, just a throwaway line
Where were they? Was this in Tel’aran’rhiod, or were they taken there in the flesh somehow?

I was rereading the Prologue again and I just don't understand where they are either. It's not mentioned anywhere after, but it seemed like they are in a real place from Bors' description and the fact that HE CHOSE to put on his clothes as diguise.
Ba'alzamon says “The place where you stand lies in the shadow of Shayol Ghul.” and people moan after that, which makes me think that if they are in someone's palace, aka a Carhienin lord/king for example , it means that that noble is a Darkfriend... but at the same time, that noble is not amongst them... so I don't know...
EDIT after I thought about it: Actually, it could be literally somewhere around Shayol Ghul, since it seemed that all of the people attending were transported there, aka Traveled through a Gateway, this way they don't know where they go, so they moan when they learn where they actually are. (makes some sense to me at least )
I am also inclined to think that it is Tel'aran'rhiod, because of all the weirdness happening - Ba'alzamon is floating above the Myrdraal, the shape of the boys appear out of thin air, Ba'alzamon speaks into Bors' mind and later makes him see visions.
Also about those visions - “Some commands are too important to be known even by he who carries them out.” Don't these remind you of Rhuidean's circles where the women go? They see visions of what might happen if they make a certain choice, etc, but they actually figure it out at the time that it's happening and they don't remember much after comming out of these rings? I don't know, it just reminded me of that, could be wrong.
Too many tidbits that could be interpreted in several ways here, it's an amazing Prologue for a world we supposedly know almost nothing about after Eye of the World.


In Chapter 1 Lan tells Rand that his sword was made more than 3000 years ago in the Age of Legends, but Lan's sword is probably also made then? It's not explicitly mentioned in this chapter, but I assume Lan's sword is also Aes Sedai made.
If both swords were made during the Age of Legends, why does one have a heron mark and the other doesn't? What did the heron symbolize back in those days? Do we find this out somewhere ?
That leads me to wonder how could the Prophecy of the Dragon have heron marks mentioned ?

 

[Merena Orithana]

I found the prologue fascinating this round as well as I was trying to figure out which characters were referenced, usually, I had been very bored reading through it.

I'm guessing that it is Tel'aran'rhoid, which helps explain how folks from all over Randland were able to join in, as well as the creepy servants. However, it could have been Gateways, like you mentioned. I think someone also notes Ingtar returning to Fal Dara physically in these chapters. Maybe he left Fal Dara to join via Tel'aran'rhoid, but it certainly seems like he must have been physically traveling somewhere.

Very interesting...I had never thought more about the heron-marked blades - especially what they meant during the age of legends. Maybe Demandred says something about them in AMoL? I will have to pay more attention to that during this re-read...

 

[Merena Orithana]

Had to add this here. Reddit's wetlander humor is giving each chapter the meme treatment. Here are the ones for TGH:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WetlanderH...lbum/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Ahaha some of those are pretty accurate, yes I like Chapter 3 and 4

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Chapter 5:
1. The Hall thinks Moiraine should be punished... or given to the Reds for punishment even... but I don't understand what were they thinking she was doing ? Is it because she hasn't been back to the Tower in a long time? Who tf cares and why? Is it because Moiraine is from Cairhienin noble blood, that's why she is important? How many Sisters are outside the Tower at any point and how many of them the Hall requires that they go back to the Tower from time to time? Some weird politics are being presented this early, I am guessing for the reasons that we are introduced to inThe Shadow Rising.

2. The Whitecloaks - Pedron Niall sends Geofram Bornhald to Tarabon, instructing him to kill anyone who sees his legion. Why? Who gave this order to Niall? Is it written like this, so that we would think that Niall was at the Darkfriend meeting in the Prologue? Surelly Carridin cannot command Niall? And as far as I remember Niall hasn't been revealed as a Darkfriend in later books.
Also, I cannot help but wonder what was the whole purpose of the Whitecloaks in this book? They didn't really do anything except kill a lot villagers and then die themselves at the end Were they there so that Ba'alzamon has more of his people there to scare Rand?

3. Liandrin's POV:
"The Dark One’s power was rooted in death; he gained power from death, and at those times she thought she could feel his power stirring."
Very interesting way of writing it, it's like she is thinking of the DO as just the DO instead of the "Great Lord", so that we do not suspect her yet and that her words to Amalisa later carry some more weight.

Also, doesn't Liandrin talk weirdly here?
“In Shienar above other lands, my daughter, the Light must be precious, and the Shadow feared.”
"Truth only, speak to me.”
“By three young men Moiraine was accompanied. This I know."
"To this, you will see personally. Personally! And to no one will you speak of it, save those I name. None else may know. None. From Fal Dara in secrecy these young men must be removed, and to Tar Valon taken."
“Of the Black Ajah you have heard?”
“Any Aes Sedai in the halls you pass, a Black sister could be. This I swear. I cannot tell you which they are, but my protection you can have. If in the Light you walk and me obey.”

It seems like her sentences were reversed in several places. And in some sentences the verbs are placed last. I don't know if this is some type of writing style or is it sometimes when one gives orders, or tries to speak a way that the others listen?
It seems she only uses this style to give out the most important information and some of it is orders, so I was just wondering if it has something to do with that.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I think Liandrin explains this in later books, it is the way Taraboner nobles speaks. It is a bit the same as the Illianer accent...

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

Ah, that explains it. And you know...I've read these books so many times, and encountered so many dialects that her way of speaking didn't strike me as odd this time. What did was that she refers to the girls as "my daughters." Just like..."calm down, lady, you're not the Amyrlin, and you freaking know it." :rofl

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Huh, interesting, I will keep an eye (ear) for that in the later books!

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Chapter 6
Rand speaks the Dark One’s name and draws his attention in some strange manner
Trollocs get into Fal Dara. Who murdered the guard on the Dog Gate? Agelmar ordered no one to leave, so someone else must have done it earlier. Moiraine has Rand exempted from the order for some reason
Ingtar takes on a Myrdraal, though I don’t think he is ever identified as a Bladesmaster
They free Fain – how does Fain know to go to Toman Head?
Liandrin is really unpleasant. Moiraine is looking much better just by comparison.

Somehow, I don't think Ingtar even fought the Myrdraal, I think he wanted to remove Rand from there, so that he can let the Myrdraal "escape" or... "leave" is maybe more appropriate to say. Also, it seems Ingtar didn't know that they will steal the Horn, so I wonder what his orders were actually... only to let them in?

And then Rand actually asks Ingtar about the earlier order that noone should leave the keep and that's the perfect opportunity for cunfusion here:
"Neither Ragan nor Tema would have made up something like that. And even if the Amyrlin Seat had given the order, Ingtar would have to know of it. So who? And how? He glanced sideways at Ingtar, wondering if the Shienaran was lying. You really are going mad if you suspect Ingtar."
dang it he was so close :P

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Chapter 7:
- Moiraine hears the dark prophecy and recognizes Isam's name and thinks to herself that shouldn't tell Lan about this. I don't think Isam is ever mentioned again in regards to Moiraine or Lan, but only from Perrin's POV
- Verin says:
“ ‘The Watchers wait on Toman Head,’ ” Verin went on. “There are a few who still cling to the old belief that the armies Artur Hawkwing sent across the Aryth Ocean will return one day, though after all this time. . . .” She gave a disdainful sniff. “The Do Miere A’vron, the Watchers Over the Waves, still have a . . . community is the best word, I suppose . . . on Toman Head, at Falme. And one of the old names for Artur Hawkwing was Hammer of the Light.”
Who are these still few who believe that Arthur Hawkwing's armies will return? Is that why this book's plot moves to Toman Head? Because it's time for the Return? But why haven't we seen any of those watchers over the waves? Seems like a lost opportunity.
- later Moiraine says: "...and no one has ever said Myrddraal do not have a sly wit.” ... uuum who has said that they do ?
"We live in perilous times, and the world hangs in the balance, and what must be done, must be done. It must. Oh, Verin, why did you have to put your nose in where it does not belong?" Well... you cannot really do anything to her though, can you? The Oaths do not let them attack another Sister, so what exactly did Moiraine think to do here?