The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Hal Bahalla]

I’m a bit behind the schedule of reading and just hit the part where Bayle is in Illian and getting pressured to sail east. Do we ever learn who and why he was getting the hard sell?

I assume it has something to do with having run into Rand, Matt and Thom in EOTW, but it was such a small thing to have Darkfriends tracking him just for that.

He also seemed to have had problems with Trollocs before he was boarded by the boys. Did I miss the explaination of that…

 

[Hal Bahalla]

Oh nevermind… I should have finished the section before posting. He had just acquired a bunch of new “old” things up north.

Spoiler: Bayles “stuff”

He has a seal on the Dark One’s prison, a lightstick, and what might be an angreal/terangreal.

No doubt that was whybhe was getting chased…

 

[Toral Delvar]

Though how they knew he had one of the Seals is not revealed. They were tracking him even before the Forsaken were released and it seems they were able to track down AOL things fairly easily

 

[Merena Orithana]

Yes @Hal Bahalla and @Toral Delvar Gaidin - it was really odd how early on they were able to track them, and then later on in the books, they had a more difficult time of it.

Here are my musings from Chapter 12 - 17. I think I'm caught up now? These chapters are very interesting and have a ton of foreshadowing...

Chapter 12:
Verin's nudging of Nyneave to learn more about channeling - hilarious! :rofl "Did I mention that novices do chores? .... Oh, you are staying? Good."

We meet Alviarin again, who is described as 'cool' and 'businesslike'. Which just seems like White Ajah, versus Black.

Liandrin already stands out as very defensive/combative - she is the only one who constantly wears her shawl on their journey to Tar Valon. I think there was also another Red that came with them; apparently she didn't wear her shawl either? No description of the other Red sister here.

Moiraine vanishes without even telling Suian - I think this is where she goes visit Vandene and Adeleas

Yes - it is interesting that Moiraine left with Lan - I wasn't sure where she goes.
Also - Liandrin follows Moiraine (apparently).
Verin also left, but how does she know where Rand went? Does she have some kind of link with Mat, because she has healed him in Fal Dara?

Chapter 13:

The portal stone has seven colours, matching the Ajahs. Were the Ajah colours chosen for the portal stone colours? Do they actually match, or am I just reading this into the text?

All of these descriptions are super interesting. Even the portal stone, itself: "it looked like any dry polished stone, but it felt curiously slick, like oiled metal". Could this be concrete? Especially since the portal stones are supposed to be from before the AoL... 'even the Aes Sedai then did not understand them'.

I had the same question about the Ajah colors origin. If nobody in this Age knew about the Portal Stones or their colorful stairs, then those colors must have been present or popular in the AoL. But what would they have corresponded to? Maybe the Rods of Dominion had different colors??

Chapter 14:
I had forgotten where 'Young Bull' came from - apparently, the wolves viewed Perrin's curved axe as the curved horns of a bull "a massive, wild bull with curved horns of shining metal...flinging himself in among Whitecloaks on their horses...blood so red on the horns"
I had previously thought it was just Perrin's relative youth, and stubborn, lumbering qualities that made the wolves think of a bull...

Chapter 15:
The description of the land in the place that never was is very interesting - to Rand, it looked like streaks of fire had burned the land, and then there were those wispy streaks crawling across the sky in a straight line... What could those be? Is there anything that could have caused that?
My first thought were the wispy streaks were airplane trails, but that probably wouldn't be it... :what

We first hear Loial's treesong in this chapter. Interesting that Rand feels that the song is so familiar to him. Could this be a reference to his Aiel ancestry? Or part of Lews' memories?

Rand also practices his sword forms while he is in the parallel world.

When Ba'alzamon visits Rand, Rand knows who he is, he also calls him "father of lies", and then they go into a dialogue about how Ba'alzamon always lies about everything. Then Rand.....conveniently forgets this and still thinks he is the DO and that he/Lews is doomed to fail....:facepalm (I, as the reader, also forgot this, so maybe Rand isn't so bad, )
(in other news, Ba'alzamon's name is too long, and I think I'm going to call him Ballzy from here on out )
Also - Ballzy also says "Serve me. Serve Shai'tan, or be destroyed forever!" :shifty Foreshadowing that Ballzy is not Shai'tan.
It is also Ballzy that causes Rand's hand to have the heron mark - I wonder if he knew what he was doing when that happened? I keep going back and forth about how much Ballzy/Ishy actually knew and how much he just guessed at and then lied about afterwards...

Chapter 16:
Rand, Loial, and Hurin visit Hawkwing's monument.....just kidding! Its a monument that the Trollocs and Fades built??? :scratch Or maybe the Forsaken built it? No idea why they would build a monument here and not have anything in the Shayol Ghul area... Maybe it is some sort of alternate universes 'things have to be equal' or something...but doesn't make sense.

Selene is super weird and suspicious - I noticed that during my first read, and she just gets more and more suspicious on every subsequent re-read. How does she know about Portal Stones and what a Grolm is, much less how to kill it? In other news, apparently Loial thinks Cairhenin are geniuses due to the amazing library they must have...

Selene has a 'scent' of 'spices, sharp and sweet'. Is she using the OnePower here to influence Rand, Loial, and Hurin? Is it some form of compulsion? I assume so, since the boys seem a little too dense in this chapter, even around a beautiful woman.
She uses the term 'alantin' to refer to Loial - is this a word in the Old Tongue, or older than that?
She also refers to 'the oneness', which I believe is the same thing that the Aes Sedai hang out in so they don't get hot or cold...
I also assume she is driving the Grolm to attack the group - but how exactly is she doing that? The grolm don't start attacking until after Rand tells Selene that he doesn't want to go to the other Portal Stone. Then, after Rand kills the small group of grolm and continues to be stubborn, another large group of grolm just happen to get their trail...:shifty.... in a semi-circle around them, with the one open way of travel leading to the portal stone... :rolleyes

Chapter 17:
The description for Randland is: A triangle standing on its point inside a circle. Do we ever see this symbol again or its significance? Maybe in the chapters with the Aelfinn and Eelfinn?
Also it looks like the colored stairs also exist in Randland.
Hurin says his sniffer isn't working correctly - he could smell violence on the boys, and also Selene in the alternate world...but can still smell violence in Randland....:shifty

 

[Toral Delvar]

Its interesting he says he could even smell it on Selene, and apologises. Maybe if fades, and she hasn't done any violence since being spun back out, but I'd have thought she'd have reeked of violence. But maybe she really doesn't kill often, and what she does later after learning of Rand and Aviendha is unusual for her

 

[Merena Orithana]

But maybe she really doesn't kill often

Maybe she had others kill for her? Would a sniffer be able to sense that?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I always assumed that the streaks across the sky is flying raken.

 

[Toral Delvar]

The description is a little ambiguous but I read it as being like an airplane trail - something moving across the sky and leaving something behind

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

So...Lanfear's Selene act has been giving me meme vibes, from how ridiculous it is, and I finally figured out which one she reminds me of.

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

I am trying to catch up, I promise

Chapter 12
Verin gives Egwene and Nynaeve their first lesson. Nynaeve doesn't want to take part, but does in the hope she can learn to be a Novice. She also learns that she has enough ability with the Power to be dangerous unless she learns to control it.
Verin mentions how Moiraine likes to keep people in the dark
What exactly is fatwood? - Something that burns easily or strongly I assume.
Moiraine vanishes without even telling Suian - I think this is where she goes visit Vandene and Adeleas
Egwene has a Dream - the first I think. Ba'alzamon, who somehow apparently sees her, Lanfear looking over Rand as he dissapears and a strange trap
Anaiya thinks Dreaming is linked to Foretelling and that if Egwene can Dream she may be able to Foretel. This is not really acurate, the two are separate, but both can involve seeing hints of the future. Do all Dreamers have prophetic dreams?

Egwene's dream is pretty clear, I hadn't noticed that before

"First there had been a man with a mask over his face, and fire in place of his eyes. Despite the mask, she had thought he was surprised to see her. His look had frightened her till she thought her bones would break from shivering, but suddenly he vanished, and she saw Rand sleeping on the ground, wrapped in a cloak. A woman had been standing over him, looking down. Her face was in shadow, but her eyes seemed to shine like the moon, and Egwene had known she was evil. Then there was a flash of light, and they were gone. Both of them. And behind it all, almost like another thing altogether, was the feel of danger, as if a trap was just beginning to snap shut on an unsuspecting lamb, a trap with many jaws."

It's clear this time that Lanfear was the one who's taken Rand to the other world. My question however is, why did she transport Huring and Loial, were they too close to not take with her? Why were the rest of the soldiers too far away? How much is far away :scratch It could be that this cannot be regulated or she didn't know exactly how to use the portal stones.

Something about Chapter 12 though - Egwene speaks to Anayia, who immaediately jumps on the Dreamer wagon, which later leeds to Egwene getting the Dream ter'angreal and fininding out she's not only a Dreamer, but also a Dreamwalker. If she had talked to ANY OTHER Aes Sedai, even Moiraine... I doubt this would've worked out like that. So she has that going for her I guess

Everything about Lanfear’s behavior is weird, but moving Rand so she could travel alone with him, get him thinking of himself as her protector and force him to channel seems plausible

Yup, that sounds plausible, she is very intent on talking to him about ALL TEH GLORY.

 

[Delara Morellin]

So...Lanfear's Selene act has been giving me meme vibes, from how ridiculous it is, and I finally figured out which one she reminds me of.

I will never be able to unsee this now, bravo Leala Sedai

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 18
Nynaeve really does not like being on the water
What sort of testing does Anaiya intend on doing? Does she ever do anything, or is it just handed over to Verin?
Egwene has dreamt of Ba'alzamon three times. She also channels as soon as Siuan has left, despite all the warnings over how dangerous it is
How does Suian make that dark glob? If Egwene knew more about the Power, she wouldn't think that Nynaeve would be able to do it herself - there is no way she can tell the flows apart or how to put them together, but it turns out she is actually right
We get a description of the architecture of Tar Valon
Sheriam talks about the potential they tell her Egwene has - from what we learn later, she shouldn't need to be told, Aes Sedai can instantaneously tell someones strength and potential
It looks like Egwene has never seen bright red hair before. High cheekbones and tilted eyes are also something significant enough she makes a note of it
Chapter 19
Rand is really going overboard on his attraction to Selene. He seems to have totally forgotten Egwene exists
After looking at the Horn, Rand remembers Egwene exists, briefly
Selene calls Darkfriends "Friends of the Dark", a term for them in the Age of Legends. She tells Rand to throw the dagger away, even after being told that Mat needs it. She doesn't know who Mat is, or why, but she doesn't care
Chapter 20
How did the statue get buried anyway?
Rand speaks the Aiel Words - blood seems to have weird effects in this world
The statue calls to him - Is it possible to channel through it, or does someone need to use the Access Keys?

 

[Merena Orithana]

So...Lanfear's Selene act has been giving me meme vibes, from how ridiculous it is, and I finally figured out which one she reminds me of.

Yes! I still think she was using some form of compulsion on Rand and Co- there's no way they would act that ridiculous without being in an altered state. :arch

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Chapter 13:
All of these descriptions are super interesting. Even the portal stone, itself: "it looked like any dry polished stone, but it felt curiously slick, like oiled metal". Could this be concrete? Especially since the portal stones are supposed to be from before the AoL... 'even the Aes Sedai then did not understand them'.

I had the same question about the Ajah colors origin. If nobody in this Age knew about the Portal Stones or their colorful stairs, then those colors must have been present or popular in the AoL. But what would they have corresponded to? Maybe the Rods of Dominion had different colors??

I was wondering something though... when were the stairs actually put there? They could've been put the when the Stones were created, which means that these colors might have been a symbol of something back before AoL. But they could've been put there by the AoL people, which would also mean the these colors had some significance to them too.
OR... So, this world that they have ended up in, has been destroyed around Arthur Hawkwing's time and the Portal Stones haven't withered and the steps around them are kept as they were... so technically, the steps might have been put around the Portal Stones after the Breaking, by the third Age Aes Sedai, but because the Stones haven't been kept an eye on, for different reasons, some of which are probably war related, the steps, along with the Stones, have withered and are now unrecognizable.

OK, theory done Just wanted to get this out.

 

[Merena Orithana]

They could've been put the when the Stones were created, which means that these colors might have been a symbol of something back before AoL.

I'm putting my money on this one here.

They must have had some sort of meaning before AoL. However, Rand does not mention the stairs being made of the same material as the Portal Stone... maybe they aren't made of the same thing?

 

[Toral Delvar]

I think every stone has the same colours - we see a few later, including the Waste. I think we can be fairly confident the colours date back to at least the Age of Legends
Also, "From an Age before the Age of Legends" - do we get that from a reliable source, or is it just Aes Sedai and Loial repeating something they believe because they were told it?

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Yeah, sadly we don't get many things revealed about the Stones even in later books. They seem to even have been forgotten and not mentioned inthe later books, right?

Also, Loial technically only gives us information about the Stones themselves and not their surroundings, so nothing is mentioned about the steps and colors.

"the different colors, seven rising from blue to red. “One for each Ajah,” he said.
This is Rand's oppinion, we have NO confirmation that they are the SAME seven Ajah colors. Can it be the seven colors of the rainbow? The rainbow doesn't really go from blue to red, but then purple and violet are not mentioned a lot in the books anyway :scratch

I checked the Library:
"It is believed that the Seanchan used the Portal Stones to travel to other worlds to take creatures, such as grolm and raken to use in battle (This passage needs a reference)."

I was wondering about if the whole grolm situation was explained later. Is this a threory?

edit: "The exotic creatures used by the Seanchan had been brought through Portal Stones from alternate realities." Confirmed in the Companion.

 

[Merena Orithana]

I like how blue and red are the most distal colors, which reflects the conflict and distance between the Red and Blue Ajah.

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Yeah the mention of the two colors in such a way threw me off, because with the Accepted bands and Amyrlin stole, the blue and red are not on the opposite sides and it only made me think that these are not the current Ajah colors.

 

[Toral Delvar]

We never learn about the formation of the Ajahs, but we do learn a little about the formation of TarValon, and it is probably safe to assume that each of the word Ajah had gained its modern meaning by then (though not certain), and that each of the groups of Aes Sedai who met to create the White Tower had a different idea of what the main focus of Aes Sedai should be, and so each Ajah formed from them. We see there were other groups/leaders who didn't make it - could they have had some other idea about what the purpose of an Aes Sedai was?
Are there 7 Ajah because 7 of these groups made it to the actual formation?
from the library

In the hope of uniting the scattered and independant groups of Aes Sedai, representants of the ajah, as those groups were called then (though they apparently differed from the ajah in the Age of Lengeds), came together for conferences. Only twelve women are mentioned: Azille Narof, Biranca Hasad, Catlynde Artein, Dumera Alman, Elisane Tishar, Karella Fanway, Lideine Rajan, Mailaine Harvole, Mitsora Caal, Nemaira Eldros, Salindi Casolan and Saraline Amerano. The others were probably not important enough to be acknowledged, or their names simply got lost.

In the year 47 AB, it was decided to build a new city as then center of their Power, though the building did not begin until the year 98 AB. The name "White Tower" had been used for almost thirty years before the construction work started. The Aes Sedai employed the Ogier stone-masons and gave them free rein on many of the buildings in Tar Valon, because they "recognized the brilliance of the largely organic forms the Ogier created;" the White Tower is the only known construction to be designed by Aes Sedai. After one hundred and four years the city of Tar Valon was completed, in the year 202 AB.

Elisane Tishar, one of the former leaders of the ajah, became the first Amyrlin Seat in the year 98 AB, although she had inofficially held the title for a couple of years prior. The Hall of the Tower was chosen, but it was a council of seven to closely advise the Amyrlin, consisting of Azille Narof, Dumera Alman, Karella Fanway, Kiam Lopiang, Mitsora Caal, Salindi Casolan and Saraline Amerano.

Of the second group, only Kiam is not present in the first.
Lidaine was stilled for being in rebellion, which brought Mailaine and her followers to heel Biranca, Catlynde, Elisane, Nemaira and disappear from history