S2E8 "What Was Meant To Be" -- w/ Book Spoilers

[Ilverin Matriam]

For any and all thoughts about Season 2 Episode 8, What Was Meant To Be! Can you believe it's already the end of the season!

This is the thread with SPOILERS from the books! If you don't want anything spoiled and you haven't read the books please take advantage of the NO spoilers thread!

 

[Arinna Katal]

I just watched "Dovie'andi se tovya sagain" about 12 times in a row, so yeah

 

[Sorcha Al'Verdan]

Can I just stop here and say I called that shit about Uno? There was a lot of squeeing when I saw that

Also, we finally got a full intro. I had missed it all season.

I love that they mix up the bits and pieces of the books, but for a second I thought Elayne was gonna be forced to bond Rand (a la Birgitte) and I was like OMG no! I also thought Rand was gonna still Moiraine in Ep 7. I absolutely love knowing the possibilities but still being surprised by what happens And occasionally, a la Uno, I get the gratification of absolutely nailing a prediction

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I have been so terrified of Mat's storyline after all the crap at the end of last season, but omg, they tied that all in so beautifully and made it make sense.

I was so hyped and also scared for this episode, because let's be real, episode 8 of last season was tragic. I was afraid to get my hopes up but they knocked it out of the park.

So in no particular order.... the good things first.

In the books, they explicitly say that Mat isn't tied to the Wheel, but I'm so so so so so glad they made him a Hero of the Horn in the show. It makes so much sense. And his line of "I remember" makes me think they're doing away with the redstone doorways entirely. And he made his own cursed ashandari, like... come on. That's amazing.

UNO! I was so mad about them killing him off, but this is bloody brilliant. He couldn't be a better Gaidal Cain. I hope we see more of him in the upcominig seasons.

EGWENE ohmygod. She was the real MVP of this episode. Rescued herself, killed Renna, went toe to toe with Ishamael on her own to protect everyone else, and basically saved the day. I about died when Renna sliced her braid off, but it just turned her into the queen she is.

And let's talk about that bond scene between Moiraine and Lan! They really made it look like she had to bond him all over again, which I think could be confusing to some people, but I forgive them for it just because we got that beautiful scene out of it. Seeing all those threads of spirit tying them together, seeing that stunning display of platonic intimacy? YES.

Smaller thing, but I'm glad we got to see a couple flashes of a broader view of the Ways. It really puts into perspective what a tangled mess it is.

OH! And the return of the opening credits? Perfection.

Moiraine and her fire dragon? Go OFF, queen! Full body chills seeing that dragon made out of fire wrapped around that tower with all our beloved characters standing there.

HOPPER!! My bestest boy. I know it seems weird to put it under the "good" part of this post, but I was happy to have seen him and I'm happy that we got that emotional impact of him saving Perrin, Perrin then killing Bornhald, seeing Hopper "fly" as he died. I was a wreck, but I'm so happy that stayed somewhat true to the books, if delayed a bit.

MOGHEDIEN. She was soooo creepy with her "softly, softly, in the shadows" and I love it. I can't wait to see more of her.

And now for the things that are less than ideal (but let's be real, I can tolerate them).

Turak. I was really looking forward to seeing some sword forms in action and it was one of those scenes that had really stood out to me in the books as something I wanted to see in the show. So personally, I'm a bit disappointed that they just shot that scene in the neck (literally) but at the same time, I think Rand did a very Rand thing to do. It had this hint of amusement about Turak thinking he's about to duel and then nope, my guy, you are severely outgunned. I was ready for Rand to be an actual Blademaster. Although I heard via discord that the Turak fight wasn't in the show because Rand and Lan haven't trained in the sword yet, but we're going to get that Rand and Lan bonding time later on so I'm not too disappointed. Just impatient.

Ishamael. I know it's canon that he wants to die (the guy needs a therapist, honestly) but I was expecting him to put up more of a fight instead of letting Rand just stab him in the chest like "thanks, bro, see you on the other side." All this trouble to shield Rand, plans to gentle him, and then he just walks up and stabs the guy in the chest with zero pushback. It felt very anticlimactic. We did get to see Rand branded, though, so I mean... okay.

Where is Min? Still in Cairhien? She was supposed to be at Falme, too. Small potatoes, really, but I missed her this episode.

 

[Sorcha Al'Verdan]

I totally dug the Captain Marvel vibes of Rand and Turak. "I have nothing to prove to you" (and he also had much bigger fish to fry, he didn't have time for some one he didn't recognize as important in any way.) I thought it was perfect

I'm betting that they'll be bringing back a super PISSED off Moridin, and while the non-readers will be confused AF until the big reveal ("No, I am your father" style)

Totally felt the same about Mat making his own ashanderai

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

This was a great way to end the season
The Heroes of the Horn was great, glad that Uno was able to return with that.
Ingtar wasn't a Darkfriend here then? Hid death was really cut short...
I hope Mat isn't keeping the dagger, but knowing him, he absolutely will
I actually like how Turak is all poised ready for a big swordfight and Rand is just; "No, no time, get away from here."
And with what Perrin did, it looks like we will get the Perrin vs Whitecloaks arc after all

For the finale, I was all like "WHY IS NO ONE GOING TO HELP EGWENE, SHE'S BATTLING ONE OF THE FORSAKEN, WHY ARE YOU ALL FOCUSING ON RAND?!"
And none of them seemed to spare a moment to ask how he was alive, other than Egwene. I thought Nynaeve would be healing him, and Elayne would show her strenght helping Egwene. It would be a little more believable than Egwene being able to hold him back all on her own...

Egwene is definitely the MC of this episode, I think once again the women steal the show I'm not sure how I feel about her just letting Renna die, instead of leaving her collared like in the book, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, after what she said last episode.

And then Moiraine and Lan They see a large group of people coming towards them, and she just turns her back on them knowing Lan will have her back That's top level trust

As for the epilogue, Moghedien is perfect and I can't wait

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

I'm not sure how I feel about her just letting Renna die, instead of leaving her collared like in the book, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, after what she said last episode.

you could make the argument that Book Egwene did leave Renna to die. the entire arc that Renna goes through leading to Mat killing her is linked directly to Egwene leaving her in Hunt for the Horn.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

I said it somewhere in Discord, but I really thought the scene I was waiting for was going to be whatever happened in the sky, but it turned out to be Mat and the Heroes. Like, I desperately need fanart of that, him with his spear and the Heroes arrayed behind him. The dragon Moiraine made was cool and I laughed out loud at the series finally having an actual dragon in it, but it didn't move me the way Mat's scene did.

The enormous build-up on the tower with Ishamael and then Rand just be liking "...poke!" was the other thing that made me laugh out loud.

The other thread in here with Rafe's interviews was very informative about both Rand's lack of swordfighting and Egwene's situation.

I was basically just an emotional wreck from Hopper through the end of the episode.

 

[Etrise al'Wiskanen]

Really liked the episode.
Mat making the ashandarei out of the cursed dagger and being a Hero of the Horn was quite interesting. (does it mean the aelfinn/eelfinn plotlines are going to be deleted? In the books the Tower of Ghenjei thing seems to mainly be a plot device to stash Moiraine in for a few books, which I don't think Prime is going to do because of her being a main character, and the redstone doors could be quite easily replaced with a ter'angreal of some sort)
Him unintentionally stabbing Rand with the cursed dagger and thus giving him the not-completely-healable wound might replace the wound he gets with the same dagger from Padan Fain in the books during the forest meal with the Cairhienin nobles (who I think were supporters of Colavaere, so them perhaps-not-existing might point to the politicking arc also not existing or being heavily cut down)

I think the presence of the string-instrument-plucking music in the scene where Lanfear walks through the castle at Falme might indicate that Asmodean is one of the Forsaken in the show.
Also, that "Light help you" from Lanfear in the last scene - considering her fondness of Lews Therin and her popularity with show-watchers, could this be the start of a redemption arc?

 

[Tobyas Cuendrelle]

Mat making the ashandarei out of the cursed dagger

SO cool. glad we all agree on this,

stunning display of platonic intimacy

y e s :' im a hopeless sucker for romance and it's the form of love i understand best, but moiraine & lan are a platonic relationship that i completely support and love and that scene was >>>>>

"Light help you" from Lanfear in the last scene - considering her fondness of Lews Therin and her popularity with show-watchers, could this be the start of a redemption arc?

oooooohhh that would be interesting 🤔 lanfear get in the rand polycule

plot device to stash Moiraine in for a few books

ok i am willingly and of my own volition in the spoilers thread but MOIRAINE COMES BACK?? does she?? 😭😭😭 does she really she's my f a v o u r i t e and my heart broke when lanfear killed herrrr and im like ok, yes, the mentor needs to die, but :' but moirainee

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

MOIRAINE COMES BACK?? does she?? 😭😭😭 does she really she's my f a v o u r i t e and my heart broke when lanfear killed herrrr and im like ok, yes, the mentor needs to die, but :' but moirainee

A true Aes Sedai cannot confirm nor deny.

 

[Iamara Tysana]

That finale was...wow. Very satisfying to me.

Things I loved/enjoyed:
- Mat/the Gambler ended up a Hero of the Horn!!! It's very well deserved, and it's nice that Mat got his due at the very end of the season!
- Moiraine-Lan bonding scene. An absolutely gorgeous scene
- Rand being proclaimed the Dragon. Sure, there may not have been the Banner of the Dragon, but the fire dragon proclaiming him made up for that. I wonder if the fire dragon and Rand were seen elsewhere in the world, just like Rand's fight with Ishamael was seen all over in the books
- Whitecloaks vs Seanchan. Whitecloaks vs Perrin. We don't otherwise really get much of this in the books (nor does this play out exactly like the books), but this was done well, and the inclusion of the Whitecloaks in the battle in Falme really helped capture the chaos of the moment we read about in the books
- Moghedien vs Lanfear. Lanfear vs Ishamael. I seem to recall in the books the relationship of the Forsaken to each other as being such that they were basically "squabbling amongst themselves". This really seemed to take shape and I loved it. Can't wait to see the final list of everyone released and how the Forsaken will meddle with the world. Hoping for more Lanfear-Moghedien antics, especially because the two are both so adept at Tel'aran'rhiod

Things I wish I saw in the finale:
- Birgitte. I know she was referenced in S1, so I'm a little disappointed we didn't get a good look at Birgitte when the Horn was blown
- Fight between Rand & Ishamael. While a sky battle might have been cool, I would have loved to have seen Rand and Ishamael fight sword on staff on top of the tower
- Rand vs Turak. Rand's strength at this part of the series is his swordfighting ability, and we don't really get to see this on display
- Min (where are you Min!)

Very curious how Rand's wound is going to be the same or different than in the series, given the initial wound is from something tied to Shadar Logoth and Mashadar rather than the Dark One/the Shadow

Gosh I can't wait for Season 3!

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

Very curious how Rand's wound is going to be the same or different than in the series, given the initial wound is from something tied to Shadar Logoth and Mashadar rather than the Dark One/the Shadow

How far have you gotten in the books?

 

[bluetear111]

I really loved this episode, best episode on the whole show so far. I thought they managed to tie up everyone really well and have people where they need to be going forward.

My only real gripe, would be why Ishmael gave up and just let Rand stab him? This seemed a bit off to me. Why do you think they done it this way?

Other then that a top episode, and this season was so much better than season one. Here is to hoping they get to make many more!

 

[Syera Faelron]

Just epic

 

[Tobyas Cuendrelle]

I wonder if the fire dragon and Rand were seen elsewhere in the world, just like Rand's fight with Ishamael was seen all over in the books

righttt, where's my televised fight projected across the world on live magic tv? 😂

Birgitte

i second this!!

why Ishmael gave up and just let Rand stab him?

bro just wants to die 💀

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

bro just wants to die 💀

+1 honestly lol

 

[Tobyas Cuendrelle]

+1 honestly lol

*redirects you, ishy & several of our own alters to the depression awareness thread* 😂😂

But no. in all seriousness, Ishy's conversation with Matt showed that he wanted the Wheel to stop and he just wanted everything to end. so it seems that when that chance came for him, he took it without putting up much of a fight

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

Ishy's conversation with Matt showed that he wanted the Wheel to stop and he just wanted everything to end. so it seems that when that chance came for him, he took it without putting up much of a fight

I think Ishy's first goal was to get Rand to turn, like that was his main objective, so in failing that, he just wants some peace at the end of his life. If he can't get Rand on his side, oh well, might as well die and try again the next time.

One thing I can say for the show is that they're making it really easy to sympathize with some of these Forsaken and Darkfriends.

 

[Cahalan Sothron]

- Whitecloaks vs Seanchan. Whitecloaks vs Perrin. We don't otherwise really get much of this in the books (nor does this play out exactly like the books), but this was done well, and the inclusion of the Whitecloaks in the battle in Falme really helped capture the chaos of the moment we read about in the books

Yeah, I really liked the Whitecloak inclusion here. I think it helped us understand them a bit better, helped humanize them some. They were always my favorite group of antagonists in the books, probably because my levels of hate for the Seanchan are Egwene-like. Plus I've spent plenty of real world time around religious wackos (in and out of my family) so they at least hold a hint of familiarity to me.