ATTN: Everyone, concerning Riley and his position as CFO

[Aulrick Vendour]

Jeffy, Zash - while feeling sorry for Riley, I'd normally have agreed with you regarding the court. HOWEVER, while I obviously don't know the details, it seems from the original post that he did this because of financial difficulties. This of course is no excuse and wouldn't take him off the hook, but if that's the case I doubt he still has the money... Under these circumstences what could you hope to gain from a lawsuit? Put him out in the street? take his house or car? And who would pay for such a thing? Lawsuits cost money. And who has the time to deal with it?
If Riley is indeed cooperating AND intends to pay back (I thought I read that at the original post), even if it takes a while, I think it's the better course.

As for letting him back: even IF such a thing was allowed, I doubt he'd be able to live with the shame.
I also agree people here deserve an explenation from him directly.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I am slightly concerned by Riley's removal from the Library, even though I can't quite put a finger on why. I think it has to do with a couple of things - the importance of preserving our history, even if it is painful, so that we can all learn from it and understand why we are what we are; that I have never believed that wrong actions, no matter how severe, should completely erase the good that a person has done or their accomplishments, and Riley was a significant figure in this community for a very long time; that a damnatio memoriae is a dangerous precedent to set, especially in the initial reaction to crisis...

Riley is no longer a member, so he doesn't have a library page. Similarly, he doesn't hold any current positions, so the positions pages show that. However, the historical pages for those positions show him as holding them up to the ban, and all the other positions he has held are still referenced. Currently, he is still shown as having received merits and awards on the merits and awards pages. I don't know think we have procedures about if people can be stripped of merits after being banned, but they do keep them if they simply quit the site. His previous bonds are also still in there, and when he have an attendance list for a party that he attended, he is listed as having attended.

 

[Ariadne Davion]

I suppose some of us are more forgiving than others, and that is alright. Some are entitled to feel that he could petition back while others feel that court action must be taken as well. Neither side of this is wrong in feeling how they do, but please let us not attack each other for feeling the way we do. Agreeing and disagreeing is perfectly understandable, but let is stay civil, please.

 

[Alyria Ess]

As an aside: I've written a few papers and done a fair amount of research on financial impropriety. It's one of my core competencies simply thanks to a fascination with it. I don't imagine this'll make anyone feel much better, but this kind of event is a pretty typical growing pain for an organization like us. If confronted in the correct manner (public disclosure, assembling qualified professionals to create new policies, public announcement of new policies) it typically leads an organization to evolve into a more efficient, professional entity. And that's what I'm seeing in motion right now. I don't expect this to make anyone feel less violated, and I'm not saying it to dismiss anyone's emotional reaction. I just want to say that this kind of event is very normal for an org in our shoes and it looks to be leading us into a better place, even though it's a crisis right now.

I was actually just coming in here to say this.
The site's current status, financial and otherwise, as well as Riley's (CFO, Shatayan) position as it stood, are all relatively new. A better system will come from this, I'm sure of it.

 

[Raam Sho'am]

Okay, that's the third or fourth post I've seen begging people to not attack each other/to be civil. I have yet to see any such behavior.

 

[Leese Sulan]

For once, I have to agree with Ram.

 

[Bao the Wyld]

Lol, someone commits a felony by embezzling thousands of dollars from a non-profit and people are discussing library pages and whether or not we should allow him to return as a member.

 

[Rollyn Montagorae]

So very, very sorry to see this.

 

[Serenla Tamowith]

Raam, I think it's a case of some folks being hit harder emotionally or in a different way than others. The requests I've seen regarding approach and "attacking" have seemed more like a reminder for all of us, not an accusation.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Okay, that's the third or fourth post I've seen begging people to not attack each other/to be civil. I have yet to see any such behavior.

I suppose it's an instinct to try to head things off before they get really heated. It's such a crazy situation. It's clear that tempers are high. For my part at least, it seemed that a couple people were getting pretty upset and I very much don't want us fighting with each other. This thing could be incredibly divisive, and I just value this community so much I don't want people splitting over this. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Zashara Sho'am]

Jeffy, Zash - while feeling sorry for Riley, I'd normally have agreed with you regarding the court. HOWEVER, while I obviously don't know the details, it seems from the original post that he did this because of financial difficulties. This of course is no excuse and wouldn't take him off the hook, but if that's the case I doubt he still has the money... Under these circumstences what could you hope to gain from a lawsuit? Put him out in the street? take his house or car? And who would pay for such a thing? Lawsuits cost money. And who has the time to deal with it?
If Riley is indeed cooperating AND intends to pay back (I thought I read that at the original post), even if it takes a while, I think it's the better course.

As for letting him back: even IF such a thing was allowed, I doubt he'd be able to live with the shame.
I also agree people here deserve an explenation from him directly.

You do realize the tower is a legal entity, right? We can't just brush this off. There could be legal ramifications for the tower. I'm not an expert in tax law, but I'd assume there could be something involved there. Just a cursory search yielded me some results, the most notable being this one: if the board doesn't prosecute, they could potentially be considered as co-conspirators in a crime.

The point of the lawsuit wouldn't be to get the money back. It's about justice. You break the law, you get caught, you pay the penalty. By not prosecuting, you imply that the concern for the wrong doer is greater than the concern for the people who were wronged.

 

[Raam Sho'am]

I get that. But it's pretty clear that no reminder is necessary.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

if the board doesn't prosecute, they could potentially be considered as co-conspirators in a crime.

Ouch.

I suppose the attorney will let them know whether they are legally responsible for pressing charges. It makes sense as a legal entity.

 

[Jeffan Caliarthan]

Taking him to court would also be the right thing to do.

 

[Jaryd Kosari]

I had observed the same thing as Az. It's pretty interesting to me how far divorced this community is from financial matters- the response of the collective majority has been very much focused on Riley's health and the emotional impact this would have on the community, rather than on the loss of money (which is how I would expect things to happen in other corporate entities).

I am concerned about how we will move forward from this. Sure, the Tower will stand unbroken in terms of community relations but....what will the legal and financial repercussions be?

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Taking him to court would also be the right thing to do.

I'm inclined to agree. I just wish it were different.

Ninya, I think it's because so few people realize just how much money was involved for the most part. And so many people prize this as a real community of real people, not just an internet website. It makes it harder to separate the emotional impact.

 

[Zashara Sho'am]

Yeah, but constantly reminding people to keep it civil when there's not even a hint of incivility comes off as condescending and obnoxious. I know I'm perfectly capable of a rational discussion, but when someone tells me to 'stop being emotional' or 'don't get emotional' when I'm not in the least bit emotional pisses me off to no extent. Tempers are high, and it's been repeatedly acknowledged that they are. When an Exec like Serenla makes a reminder it's one thing, she's being official, it's her job. I don't want to get into a discussion about this, when there are more important things to talk about, but it's something that happens repeatedly and grates on my nerves.

 

[Kelgan al'Moranwin]

The second question that comes to mind is whether or not banning Riley is a good idea. Riley deeply disappointed a lot of people including me. He should be, and probably is, thoroughly ashamed of himself. It is quite obvious that he will not be able to continue in any official position in the tower. In fact, this place is going to be very uncomfortable for him right now. That being said, outright dismissal is very much against the spirit of this place. What Riley has done probably involves a substantial sum but it is money. It is *only* money. We've allowed people (back) on the site who have done the most dreadful things to other members and forgiven them. Liars, cheats, people who would do the most absurd things to get attention, sympathy or money. Surely the site can deal with someone who'd commit fraud as well.

As you note, members who were banned have been allowed to return in the past. I don't think it likely that Riley will ever be in a position of significant responsibility or trust within this community again, but him returning is not out of the question. If, how and when is something that will be handled by the site admins should the question arise. In any case, I don't anticipate that Riley will be returning soon.

I also want to point out that we wouldn't be discussing a lawsuit against Riley in all likelihood. We'd be discussing a criminal prosecution.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Sorry, Zasha. I definitely didn't mean to be condescending. I certainly didn't mean to step on anyone's toes.

I'm very sorry if I offended anyone. It was not meant that way at all.

 

[Jeffan Caliarthan]

Interesting article.