The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: To the End!

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Isn't this confirmation that he enjoys pain?

    The Gathering Storm 33: Nynaeve why should anyone feel guilt about Kerb, Graendal is the one who killed him, she is the one who gutted the young man's mind. There is no reason for Rand to feel anything about his role in Kerb, all he did was force a corpse to say two words.

    The Gathering Storm 34: Poor Mat, after Hinderstap he is understandably freaked out about a mysterious person handing out pamphlets with his and Perrin's faces on them. Honestly Mat's reaction of “I want my army to secure the area before I get in there and I want the guy practiced as spycraft spying for me before we go in." is quite sensible considering that yes, there is a conspiracy of evil servants of the dark who want to assassinate him.
     
  2. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Chapter 27:
    -It’s Hinterstap time!
    -Mat can lose in games of chance, too, if it’s what he wants.
    -Mat does start to feel guilty for swindling the people of Hinderstap.

    Chapter 28:
    -The people in Hinerstap only attack people not animals. That’s nice at least, I suppose.
    -Verin’s pictures finally reach Mat. Poor Verin. :lol Did she get the photos from her Black Ajah people? Or is she just really good at drawing Mat and Perrin’s faces? :look
    -It’s very nice of the mayor to let Mat keep the money and food after he returned the next day.

    Chapter 29:
    -Rand had the access key stolen from Cadsuane’s room.
    -The True Power is still calling to Rand… and he’s getting a super evil aura.
    -Rand tries to convince himself that Dobraine’s a good man and that he can trust him. Well, almost trusting someone is better than nothing, right? :p

    Chapter 30:
    -I’m so glad Gareth’s there to set Gawyn straight and knock some sense into him.
    -Gawyn is convince that Bryne is wrong about Rand and that he’s been taken in by Rand’s charisma.
    -Bryne has come to believe in the rebel Aes Sedai cause.

    Chapter 31:
    -The balance of good and bad ta’veren incidents is breaking down around Rand… since touching the True Power probably.
    -Cadsuane believes that Rand has good reason to mistrust Aes Sedai. Not something a lot of Aes Sedai would admit.
    -Rand admits to himself that it was probably a mistake to exile Cadsuane, that it was done in a fit of rage.
    -I’m with Flinn here. Rand mentions making peace with the Seanchan despite differences and Flinn says
    -Rand tells Nynaeve that Lan deserves what he gets for riding alone and then says that he could benefit from his death… Nynaeve is understandably super pissed! Seriously, Rand. :|

    Chapter 32:
    -There’s a regular ‘bubble of evil’ (if you’d even call it that) in the ghosts that appear outside Bandar Eban. It’s odd that it occurs so predictably. Most of these things are random.
    -Nynaeve Heals a sick boy she overhears. :)
    -Nynaeve is great here. I’m not a huge Nynaeve fan, but there are really awesome moments with her. Like singlehandedly figuring out what’s up with the messenger from the king! :D
    -Milisair very nearly died and would have if Nynaeve hadn’t Delved the woman on a whim.
     
  3. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Well we learn in the last book that the "balance" doesn't work the way Rand and Moraine thinks, and that Rand only causes good because the Dark One is trying to cause bad around him to harm him, his Ta'verenness is probably turned off due to his current state of mind.

    She is over 100, and as a Brown practicing in drawing is probably a valuable skill so I can see her having picked it up along the way somewhere.

    Just like she stole it and Callendor from him after he was Passed out from cleansing the taint :p

    And yet she acts like all the worst aspects of Aes Sedai around him.
     
  4. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    I'm in the middle of the Hinderstap section. The first time I read this part I was very annoyed. I felt like Brandon Sanderson gave in to the current pop culture fascination with zombies, and that his plotline felt very out of place in WoT. I've read it several times since then, and it is definitely one of my least favorite sections. On this read I feel slightly different though. I'm still not a big fan of it, but I'm starting to feel like it isn't quite as out of place as I originally felt it to be. It could be simply that I've gotten used to it being there, but I think it is more than that. I can (start) to see how this fits with the bubbles of evil that are occurring. I don't think it will ever be a favorite part for me, but at least I don't hate it and resent Brandon for it anymore. :p
     
  5. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Yeah, the Hinderstap section annoys me too. It seems to have no point in the progress of the plot, other than a very small section in the Last Battle that could have been handled some other way, without four chapters of back story...
     
  6. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Just read the next chapter and she tells Mat that she was given it by a Darkfriend, which I think confirms that it's just one of the papers that the Forsaken are passing around in order to find Mat and Perrin.
     
  7. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    Chapter 33:
    -Nynaeve is amazing at Healing (as we knew) and is able to unravel Compulsion. Her Healing ability is so normal to us that it can be easy to forget how impossible it should be to unravel Graenal’s Compulsion.

    Chapter 34:
    -Mat meets up with Verin who’s been passing out the pictures of him… The Pattern was working in an oddly directed manner in this case. Usually its actions are a little less obvious.

    Chapter 35:
    -Tuon calls the Asha’man Tsorov’ande Doon (Black-Soule Tempests).
    -Tuon is smart to realize that she needed to be able to meet Rand as an equal (that he wouldn’t accept anything else). I mean… it doesn’t end up working, but it was at least a good idea :lol
    -According to the Seanchan prophecies, the Empress is supposed to be the one who defeats the Shadow and then sends the Dragon to fight the Dark One.
    -It seems that some of the Seanchan prophecies refer to Mat/Perrin. The ‘blinded’ prophecy sounds more like Mat, at least. (though it could certainly refer to a metaphorical blinding) I wish we had copies of the Seanchan prophecies to look at it. :\
    -Rand will soon fulfill part of the Seanchan prophecies by standing on his own grave, on Dragonmount.
    -Tuon is very nearly taken in by Rand’s ta’veren nature and only barely manages to avoid it. She only manages to say ‘no’ for the sake of it because she was worried about what was happening to her, not because she could think of any reason to reject his proposal.
    -Tuon finally becomes the Empress… and the assault on Tar Valon begins. :(

    Chapter 36:
    -Mat asks if Rand is mad yet an Verin says that she believes he is, though not because of the taint on saidin.
    -Verin believes that saidin is cleansed. :joy
    -Verin is aware of Mat’s luck with dice. Verin knows all. :)
    -Verin says she got the picture from a Darkfriend who thought she was a Darkfriend. :-)giggle)

    Chapter 37:
    -Min sees Dragonmount next to Rand, shrouded in darkness with one small pinpoint of light.
    -Rand’s balefire removed Gaendal’s Compulsion. That was certainly a clever use of balefire.
    -Nynaeve finds herself wishing Moiraine were here. :giggle

    Chapter 38:
    -Siuan to Egwene while Egwene’s still locked in the cell: “But I should be getting back. Some of us can’t spend our days relaxing the way you can.” :rofl
    -Egwene idly wonders what happened to Aram, Raen, and Ila, assuming they’re probably happy somewhere with their camp. :(
    -Silviana openly defied Elaida, demanding Egwene’s release an openly praising Egwene.
    -Elaida’s clearly lost all sense of propriety, ordering Silviana to become a novice and then to be stilled and executed. :blink
    -Egwene sensibly refuses to allow the Red Ajah to be disbanded.
    -The novices all openly call Egwene Mother.
    -And we see Verin in Egwene’s room. Why does she need to do this today? Is it just because of the turmoil in the Tower that makes her not want to delay just in case? ‘Cause if she were willing to wait a little while, she could probably have found the Oath Rod the next day when the Black Ajah hunters weren’t using it.

    Chapter 39:
    -Verin’s found a very specific ter’angreal that can only be used to hide books from sight.
    -Verin had been commanded by Siuan to help Egwene find the Black Ajah. :lol But that task helped Verin learn how competent Egwene is and that she could be truste.
    -Egwene learns that Sheriam is Black. :(
    -Egwene wonders where the Red Sitters besides Duhara are. We know Pevara is off bonding male channelers. Javindhra was also visiting the Black Tower.
    -Egwene wonders if Sheriam might have been behind the Gray Man attack from a while ago. Good guess!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  8. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    In chapter 34, I don't think Verin is telling the truth :look Remember, she can tell lies ;) And she is sneaky ;)

    And the scene with Verin and Egwene makes me cry every time :cry But it is true what you say, why the rush? She couldn't possibly know about the Seanchan attack (could she? :look) and the clusterf**ck that is about to happen in the Tower, but maybe she sees that Egwene is winning her battle, and want to arm her to deal with the Black before that happens?
     
  9. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 33-39

    VERIN!!! :cry <3
     
  10. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 40-46

    The Gathering Storm 33: Nynaeve why should anyone feel guilt about Kerb, Graendal is the one who killed him, she is the one who gutted the young man's mind. There is no reason for Rand to feel anything about his role in Kerb, all he did was force a corpse to say two words.

    The Gathering Storm 34: Poor Mat, after Hinderstap he is understandably freaked out about a mysterious person handing out pamphlets with his and Perrin's faces on them. Honestly Mat's reaction of “I want my army to secure the area before I get in there and I want the guy practiced as spycraft

    The Gathering Storm 35: I am not sure what is going on quite well here. Rand is trying to force his Tav'eren nature
     
  11. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 40-46

    This book has one of my favorite endings in the series. Perrin never got to see his family again and I can't remember if Mat did either, but it was so fascinating to see Rand and Tam interact after Rand has changed so much. And I don't even know how to describe "Veins of Gold".
     
  12. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: The Gathering Storm Re-Readalong: Chapters 40-46

    Chapter 40:
    -Bryne learns just how much the Warder bond adds. He’s right; it would be amazing to have an army’s worth of soldiers with that power… though it would mean Bonding them to people and risking them and the Aes Sedai freaking out when one of them dies.
    -Bela! :joy
    -Egwene is a fantastic leader here! I love watching her lead the novices.
    -I can’t help but :rolleyes at Gawyn’s eagerness. Siuan is right; Gawyn is annoyingly single-minded.
    -Adelorna is ashamed that the battle Ajah isn’t very capable at fighting. It makes sense, though, especially compared against the Seanchan who train channelers to do nothing but fight!
    -The Seanchan have Traveling.

    Chapter 41:
    -Gawyn, Siuan, and Bryne try to rescue Egwene.
    -Seaine realizes that the Tower needs to be united and how the divisions in the Tower have hurt them in this battle. They certainly wouldn’t have been prepared for a Seanchan raid beforehand, but they’re in even worse shape now. Each Ajah is fighting separately and not joining forces. :facepalm
    -Egwene channels an insane amount of Power and I can’t help but think of her death in Memory of Light when she says that she’s a “fount of Power”.
    -One of the weaknesses that the damane/sul’dam have is that they can’t make circles with each other, since they’re already in a circle with the a’dam.
    -Bryne and Siuan save each other and then assume that the Min’s viewing is fulfilled. :| I’m really not happy with how that ends in Memory of Light.
    -Gawyn sees Egwene exhausted and assumes that the White Tower Aes Sedai left her in the hallway during the fighting, defenseless. Does he know she can’t channel much due to forkroot? How is she defenseless?
    -We learn that Elaida’s been captured. I can’t even wish that on Elaida, though… :(

    Chapter 42:
    -Rand leaves a starving Bandar Eban without really telling anyone (including Nynaeve an Ituralde) that and where he’s going.
    -Rand decides he finally needs to confront the Borderlander armies.
    -Lews Therin likes Weiramon, saying he’s honest. :lol Weiramon is a Darkfriend.

    Chapter 43:
    -Egwene lists off the attributes of the Ajahs that the Amyrlin needs to emulate and when she gets to the Red, she chooses ‘vengeance’. I never saw the Red Ajah as vengeful, though I suppose there are probably some vengeful people in it. I just figured they were people who were taking up a task that needed to be done: dealing with male channelers who might destroy the world if left unchecked.
    -We learn about the plot of the Ajah heads to appoint young Sitters that they can control.
    -The Ajah heads start bickering about appointing people from their Ajahs, showing the stark divides in the Tower that also is evident in the Hall.
    -Bryne tells Siuan he wants to marry her after the world can take care of itself. :desk I’m really pissed that they die in Memory of Light. :mad :|
    -Sheriam lost her left little finger because she couldn’t find one of the dream ter’angreal. The one Siuan has, I assume?
    -Egwene starts to capture and execute Black Sisters. It works remarkably well in the camp, at least.

    Chapter 44:
    -Rand thinks he’s doing Lan a favor by allowing him to die.
    -Nynaeve knows the significance of 13 Aes Sedai and is understandably concerned.
    -Hurin! :D But I feel so bad for him here. D:
    -Hurin can smell the death and darknessthat surrounds Rand.
    -Rand plans to murder random people in the Borderlander armies to prove a point… luckily Nynaeve is there to stop him.
    -Nynaeve gets locked into her room in the Stone when it suddenly appears behind a wall and she has to weave a gateway to get out. I wonder how many people have died due to their rooms moving to impossible locations who can’t just get out with a gateway.

    Chapter 45:
    -People in the rebel camp are refusing to wear red because of Elaida and what the Red AJah had done. :blink
    -Egwene has learned what many others in this series failed to realize: keeping prisoners can be very dangerous. She doesn’t want to risk keeping the Black Sisters around for interrogation just in case.
    -Egwene realizes that Bryne didn’t want to come with Siuan and Gawyn and so doesn’t hold it against him.
    -Egwene wonders why Nisao, Myrelle, Faolain, and Theodrin were sent to the Black Tower, since they had all sworn fealty to Egwene… did we learn why? Is it just because the people in charge of choosing people for the delegation wanted people loyal to Egwene out of the camp in order to secure more power themselves? That definitely sounds like Lelaine and Romanda at least.
    -Egwene learns that the Tower Aes Sedai want her as Amyrlin. :joy :joy

    Chapter 46:
    -Egwene realizes that she’s only been chosen (as she was before) because she was the only person everyone could agree upon.
    -Silviana believes that, even with saidin cleansed, men cannot be trusted in general. I’m sure that not all Reds believe that, but it’s probably a pervasive attitude, combined with the necessity of their jobs, that convinces a lot of Reds of this over time.
    -Egwene gets wild cheers after her speech. She’s very good at public speaking.
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Yeah, I can't fault most Reds for their attitudes towards men, although it is sad... I want to be optimistic and hope that this changes after the Last Battle, and I think in a way it does, but not at all fast... News that Saidin is clean will spread, but it will take a long time before male channelers will be trusted by most people... Then again, most people don't trust female channelers either, so maybe that isn't so strange :p
     
  14. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

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    I'm not sure that having an army of bonded soldiers would work. I've assumed one of the reasons Aes Sedai chose carefully their Warders is because they want the most skillful and also one that they can work with, but also one that won't be careless. I could see if an army of soldiers could be bonded that some of them may become careless and use the abilities they acquire without care. Imagine a soldier who runs into a fight assuming his reflexes and sense will protect him, without using tactics to know how to go in with the greatest chance of victory. Gaidin need proper training and tactics. The reason it worked so well with Bryne, Galad and Leilwyn is because they've all had intensive training and are leaders of people.

    I feel bad for Hurin to, his wilting. :( Rand should have treated him better, but he wasn't in his right mind then and it only increase the stress on Rand to finally laugh.

    I feel bad for Tam also, but it's interesting to finally see Tam get angry. The whole serious you never see him mad or upset. He always steps back and looks a situation over before getting angry, but here he finally lays his ears back and gets angry. It shows how much alike Rand and Tam are that you can see how much it takes to make him angry.
     
  15. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Yeah, an army of Bonded Warders may sound like a good idea, but remember that in an army, someone will always die. That will disable the Aes Sedai, and also any other Warders Bonded to that same Aes Sedai...
     
  16. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Chapter 47:
    -Rand hears Lews Therin talking about how the Choedan Kal were too powerful to use.
    -Tam! :D Excited to see Tam here, but the meeting is just so sad. :(
    -Rand speaks to Tam very formally, trying to create distance between them. “You have done great service, Tam al’Thor. By protecting and raising me, you have ushered in a new Age. The world owes you a debt.” :blink
    -Tam picks up the method of communication that Rand’s using and starts calling him My Lord.
    -Tam is wise and gives Rand good advice, telling him that it’s the reason he does something that matters.
    -Tam makes the mistake of mentioning Cadsuane. :desk At least she did mention to him that Tam shouldn’t mention her name… not that I can really blame Tam for bringing her name up. He probably didn’t realize just how bad an idea it was.
    -Rand attacks Tam and almost kills him. :cry

    Chapter 48:
    -Min can call Cadsuane without the ‘Sedai’ suffix, while the other Aes Sedai always call her Cadsuane Sedai.

    Chapter 49:
    -The Tuatha’an are starting to set up camps due to the safety (for most people) under the Seanchan. Poor Tuatha’an channelers. :( They’re earning money from the Seanchan for helping out travelers and doing other odd jobs.
    -Rand unconsciously comes Dragonmount and stands on his own grave. Such a good chapter. :D

    Chapter 50:
    -Rand considers breaking the wheel and ‘letting men rest, finally, from their suffering’… luckily he comes to his senses before that.
    -Rand destroys the Choedan Kal
    -Rand’s a real person again! :joy :joy :joy

    Epilogue:
    -Mesaana wasn’t caught in the cleansing. Does she just have some way of getting past the oaths?
    -Silviana shows Egwene the light above Dragonmount. She can tell that it’s something important. She notices that she feels relaxed looking at it, though she isn’t sure why. :)
    -
    :joy :joy :joy
     
  17. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Well, all I can say is FINALLY we can stop reading about Rand in his dark place :look It was not a very pleasant read... Rand from here on out though, is just AWESOME :D
    Now we just have to read a lot more Perrin BS...
     
  18. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Are we starting Towers of Midnight this week or taking a week off for people to catch up?
     
  19. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    The Gathering Storm 36 - Oh Verrin, I will miss you, it is so easy to tell she is a Dark Friend in retrospect.

    The Gathering Storm 37 - Rand's plan here is cold, Calculating and incredibly cunning. Is there any real argument that Rand's plan here is not the proper one? Yes it is dangerous to reality but Graendal isn't Damedred, she won't face him directly so the only way to take her out is to make her feel as if she has the advantage then destroy her with a massively overpowering attack in one strike.

    The Gathering Storm 38 – And here comes, what is really the first direct move by the light against the shadow. Up until now the majority of the fight between the light and the shadow have been to screw around with pawns. The Forsaken outside of Ishamael are really just distractions in the overall things, but Verin takes the first shot in the real war by setting up Egwene to take out the Black Ajah who are in position to deal major damage to the forces of the light if they were go to into the Last Battle within the ranks of the White Tower.

    The Gathering Storm 39 – Goodbye Verin, I wish you could have been around for the next book, Or that you came back with Ingtar as a Hero(ine) of the Horn.

    The Gathering Storm 40 – Oh yeah! Time to take the fight back to the Seanchan. I do however think Egwene does make one small mistake in terms of fighting the Seanchan Da'mane. If you are aiming to leave the Da'mane alive and Kill the Sul'dam unlocking the Bracelets is a better move than the Collar. On your home turf you don't want to unleash a potential self destructive bomb in the middle of your house, and we were told that Damane who are uncollared can turn weaves against themselves in destructive fashion.

    The Gathering Storm 41 – Gawyn and Siuan are being logical here, as far as they are aware Egwene is in mortal danger, She literally vanished from the world of dreams mid meeting and they can tell Tar Valon is under some kind of assault. This is the exact situation in which followers should violate orders to protect their leader.

    The Gathering Storm 42 - This is the real low point for me in the plot. As boring as Crossroads was at times, seeing Rand utterly give up on trying to be a positive force in the world is depressing as heck.

    The Gathering Storm 43 - On the other side of the Coin, it is great to see Egwene move the Rebel Plot to it's final Stage. She gets rid of the Black Ajah, and brings the Rebel Sitters to complete heel in one move.

    The Gathering Storm 44 – Bringing in Tam should have been done Books ago, like after Book 5 preferably but definitely after book 6. Rand needed someone he could absolutely trust 100% and Tam is that person so long as Cadsuane is not pulling at Tam's strings.

    The Gathering Storm 45 – WOOT WOOT! Egwene wins, now she gets to rule over the full Kindergarten of Aes Sedai instead of just the part that ran out to recess when the Teachers started to fight.

    The Gathering Storm 46 – All Hail Egwene! And Silviana as her side kick!

    The Gathering Storm 47 – Tam's mistake here was bringing up Cadsuane at all, Trying to remind him of the past and all of that didn't help and what he was doing at first was on it's way to working and getting Rand to open up.

    The Gathering Storm 48 – Finally someone tells Cadsuane to stuff it, there was one other mistake that was made in terms of Having Tam talk to Rand. Did nobody think to tell the man what his son had been through? Like that crap is important. “Oh yeah The White Tower stuffed your Son in a little box and beat him endlessly and then he was forced to almost kill his girlfriend by one of the forsaken” are important details to know before talking to someone.

    The Gathering Storm 49 – I don't think Rand's plan here is exactly the smartest thing. Balefire a Forsaken? Sure that is a good plan however I think normal Lightning, Fire and Tornados would be far better.

    The Gathering Storm 50 – Finally, we are past Dark Evil Gloomy Rand, I admit I usually listen to a book several times as we have gone through the series since I just listen as I fall asleep..but I completely skipped over doing the ending of this book, Rand just gets so Evil and dull I find it incredibly difficult to go through more than once.

    Epilogue - Nothing much to discuss here.
     
  20. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I usually say that TGS is a very dark book, in the Rand moments, but is saved by the AWESOME Egwene chapters. And I agree, I totally understand Siuans actions, she had no way of knowing how Egwene would manage, and she was in considerable danger. I also don't think it would have been as easy as she thinks to take control over the Tower Aes Sedai. The decision to Raise her was a decision best made in her absence... Besides, she very much needed to come back to the rebels and take control there again...