The end of the Forsaken

[rebornoldtimer]

I couldn't see a thread on this topic so hope i'm not going over old ground too much,

I wondered what people felt about the end of the forsaken, character by character.

It's interesting that all but one of the female forsaken survived, in various ways, wheres all the male forsaken were wiped out.

Do you think that they had satisfactory ends?

 

[Arinna Katal]

I thought they were all satisfying enough except for Sammael, specifically because it was written so twistily in a way that, from RJ, would normally indicate that he wasn't actually dead (Rand didn't see him die, etc. etc. etc.). And so for the scene to have Rand be like "idk i guess he's probably dead, right????" and for that to be true was annoying lol

OH wait, I don't like that Sanderson swooped in ten years post-AMoL to be like "jk guys, Lanfear actually survived!!!!" We didn't need that!

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

OH wait, I don't like that Sanderson swooped in ten years post-AMoL to be like "jk guys, Lanfear actually survived!!!!" We didn't need that!

I didn't need that either. and it makes no sense. it was made fairly clear what death in the Dream does.

 

[Thaddius al'Guy]

OH wait, I don't like that Sanderson swooped in ten years post-AMoL to be like "jk guys, Lanfear actually survived!!!!" We didn't need that!

For me, if there's one thing Sanderson screwed up on, it's this.

 

[Arinna Katal]

I didn't need that either. and it makes no sense. it was made fairly clear what death in the Dream does.

And it was also not ambiguous at all in the books. Maybe I was unaware of it, but I never saw anyone talking about, "man, what happened to Lanfear? Did she die? Did she not die? Who can tell!!!!" It's like if he would have said, "Oh, just FYI, Egwene was actually Black Ajah the whole time" or some other thing that was not even remotely speculated about. This is not an answer to a long-standing question, it's just straight-up changing the book after the fact. And I refuse to accept it as canon lol

 

[Viktara Fen]

I don't believe she survived any more than I believe Bela did (the Companion lists her alive, but we clearly see her die).

Now what it *would* have benefited us all to see BS confirm was my pet theory that Narg is actually Bela is actually one of the Chosen Forsaken.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

And it was also not ambiguous at all in the books. Maybe I was unaware of it, but I never saw anyone talking about, "man, what happened to Lanfear? Did she die? Did she not die? Who can tell!!!!" It's like if he would have said, "Oh, just FYI, Egwene was actually Black Ajah the whole time" or some other thing that was not even remotely speculated about. This is not an answer to a long-standing question, it's just straight-up changing the book after the fact. And I refuse to accept it as canon lol

No joke. Honestly the only "loose end" I wanna know about is WTF is the "Broken Crown"!?!?!?!!? Apparently everyone in Saldea knows about it but the reader.

 

[Arinna Katal]

I don't believe she survived any more than I believe Bela did (the Companion lists her alive, but we clearly see her die).

Now what it *would* have benefited us all to see BS confirm was my pet theory that Narg is actually Bela is actually one of the Chosen Forsaken.

NARG SMART

 

[rebornoldtimer]

Part of the reason I made this thread was due to how Lanfear 'ended.'

I basically have not been involved with or taking notice of WOT fandom or discussion for around 10 years, and have only come back due to the tv series.

I read A Memory Of Light and was somewhat disappointed that this was how the series ended, but overall felt that Sanderson had done as good a job as possible.

I believed that Lanfear had indeed died!

It's only very recently that after watching A Memory Of Light 10th anniversary discussion/interview with Sanderson that I became aware of this 'development.' I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest.

I do find it a little strange that bar Semirhage all the female forsaken survived. I understand that Jordan had plans to write further novels but I don't know if his notes had indicated that they would survive for further adventures or if this was Sandersons choice (maybe he didnt want to kill off the female characters? Though he had no problem killing off Egwene! Of course he always says the characters write their own ends, which frankly I think is nonsense).

I felt Demandreds end was satisfactory. His major weakness was his arrogance, and he paid for it eventually.

Sammaels exit was always a little empty for lack of a better term. I have never understood why Jordan decided to write it in this somewhat vague way.

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

I liked Lanfear's twist. In hindsight, it made a lot of sense to me. As Lanfear's death always felt a bit silly and deux ex machine.

Lanfear has always been a master manipulator and a cunning schemer. Her skills in Tel'aran'rhiod far surpass those of Perrin, who, despite his recent mastery, is still very inexperienced compared her who has had millennia to perfect her skills.

Lanfear has always been about her own advancement. She's not as committed to the Dark One as she is to her own power.
And Lanfear had every reason to fake her death; being on bad terms with both the forces of the Light and the Dark. If the Dark One wins, she's screwed, as she never really helped him much. If the Light wins, she's in trouble as a Forsaken? The only way out she has is if the Light wins but everybody thinks she's dead.

Creating a fake copy or illusory version of herself is well within the realm of possibilities in Tel'aran'rhiod for someone as skilled as Lanfear. Alternatively, Lanfear could manipulate the environment to make it appear as though she had died. In TAR a lot is possible.

When I re-read the books I will be on the lookout for foreshadowings and subtle hints.

I suspect Robert Jordan set this up when he was planning to have sequel novels - and she would show up there. That's why it is so well hidden.

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

I had no idea that RJ planned to have sequels.

 

[rebornoldtimer]

To quote RJ from his statement when he told the world he was ill

I had no idea that RJ planned to have sequels.

To quote RJ when he released a statement advised on his illness,

' I sat down and figured out how long it would take me to write all of the books I currently have in mind, without adding anything new and without trying rush anything. The figure I came up with was thirty years. Now, I'm fifty-seven, so anyone my age hoping for another thirty years is asking for a fair bit, but I don't care. That is my minimum goal. I am going to finish those books, all of them, and that is that.'

Now obviously its very sad, but its clear that he plans to be sure. He had been releasing books every couple of years essentially, so its easy to presume that he had in mind quite a few volumes, and this combined with some of the things BS has said seem to confirm it.

BS has also advised in his interviews that there were a couple of threads left by RJ that were intended for post AMOL.

Perrin going after a friend (suggested to be Mat by BS) and something else. I forget.

I believe that it was indicated to BS that some of the forsaken would have the door left open for returns as well.

 

[Teavin Calayna]

I hate Moghedien's fate because it feel unnecessary and also lazy for her to just be captured by the Seanchan when it would have been far more entertaining for her to have been the only one to escape so readers are left wondering what she did after the Last Battle

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

For me, if there's one thing Sanderson screwed up on, it's this.

I don't care so much about this, for me it was never really giving the climax to padan fain's arc that was needed. padan fain was a very unique character arc representing chaos that even the Dark One feared, it would have been interesting to see where that went in a full on climax/bigger part of the ending.

also Aes Sedai may live for a long long time, but they don't live forever, so I really doubt Lanfear had much longer to live anyway just based on age. i mean in 100-200 years she would have been weaved out anyway, so meh, and she is only one person so can only do so much damage in that time, and when hope and morale has just been restored people are less likely to give in to fear, manipulation, or bullying, so I just find the lanfear living or not as irrelevant. I'm not sure if previous age gets added to reincarnated age, or if you get a fresh start over? eh... getting too technical for me to care anymore since its all fake anyway lol

I hate Moghedien's fate because it feel unnecessary and also lazy for her to just be captured by the Seanchan when it would have been far more entertaining for her to have been the only one to escape so readers are left wondering what she did after the Last Battle

even when I was a teenager and read the series for the first time, the seanchan just were never interesting to me and kind of ruined some of the main arcs for me, but eh its no big deal, still my fav series of all time.

Lanfear has always been a master manipulator and a cunning schemer. Her skills in Tel'aran'rhiod far surpass those of Perrin, who, despite his recent mastery, is still very inexperienced compared her who has had millennia to perfect her skills.

perrin had the wisdom of the wolves and their guidance and help even in Tel'aran'rhiod though from what I remember, and their wisdom is thousands of years older than Lanfears, even if not as sophisticated.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

perrin had the wisdom of the wolves and their guidance and help even in Tel'aran'rhiod though from what I remember, and their wisdom is thousands of years older than Lanfears, even if not as sophisticated.

That's how I thought about it too. Like she didn't even consider that he could break what she wove from the Power the way he did.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I did find many of them at least a little unsatisfying. Lanfear I actually liked, it was a moment of genuine growth for Perrin
Demandred being killed by Lan I liked, but I didn't buy into the whole "super general swordsman" thing. Sure, he probably commanded more battles than many of the other generals, but there were only really ten years of outright war before he was sealed. We also know that being a swordsman was relatively new (Belal reminisces about learning to use swords as weapons again), so I saw no reason why he would be so much better than everyone.

 

[Dorian Har'Locke]

I had no idea that RJ planned to have sequels.

It's a great element of speculation for where and how things would have evolved ^_^

The main cast are still such babs by AMoL, it would be interesting to see them as adults in their prime.

 

[Toral Delvar]

There were I think other series
One was in Seanchan, so would have followed Mat and Tuon. I think one was Moiraine's search before coming to Emond's Field. And one about Tam, although that might have been part of the Moiraine one. Probably not though, as by the time she was looking, his story in Illian had finished

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

Idk, I've also seen a quote attributed to RJ that there were some end he intended to leave loose. Because life doesn't always tie everything up nicely or some such

 

[rebornoldtimer]

There were quite a few loose ends at the end of TMOL, but I think it was intentional, if a little frustrating.