S2E7 "Daes Dae'Mar" -- w/ Book Spoilers

[Ilverin Matriam]

For any and all thoughts about Season 2 Episode 7, Daes Dae'Mar!

This is the thread with SPOILERS from the books! If you don't want anything spoiled and you haven't read the books please take advantage of the NO spoilers thread!

 

[rebornoldtimer]

Wow…

There is a lot here to think over!

I will have to rewatch the episode before properly gathering my thoughts.

The changes to the plot are certainly interesting, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I'm not sure if I like what they're doing with Siuan's plotline, or with Mat, for that matter, but I'm so glad that we're seeing some action toward Falme.

Also considering what they've set up, I don't think we're going to get our flicker flicker scene, either.

 

[Cahalan Sothron]

Egwene looking Renna straight in the eye and telling her, "I'm going to kill you" was by far my favorite moment. Right behind that was Nynaeve and Elayne. I'm curious to see how long Elayne can put up with Nyn's snippiness before snapping back herself.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

I feel like there were a lot of really great lines in this episode:
- Siuan telling Rand "this would be so much easier if you were a girl" before it cuts immediately to Egwene
- Mat's "is this a sex thing or a murder thing?"
- Lanfear's "back to this"
- Egwene's "I'm going to kill you"
and probably more I'm forgetting. I cackled SO MANY times.

I was mad about the tea and about Siuan's behavior for a hot minute before I realized how much sense those things make for the show.

I LOVED the music during the ji'e'toh scene! And the resolution to Moiraine's "stilling", high five to every one of us who guessed she was shielded!

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

I was mad about the tea and about Siuan's behavior for a hot minute before I realized how much sense those things make for the show.

They do? Why do you think that?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, the only thing I was mad about in this episode is Siuan. I get the meeting with the Dragon and her being angry at Moiraine for failing, but the rest plain doesn't make sense!
Is Siuan stilled now, instead of Moiraine? I did like how Rand was able to remove the block on her. Is this how Elaida is elected Amyrlin, to remove the coup altogether? Will there then be no Salidar?

Also, despite the episode being called Daes Daemar, no one actually said that, or explained what that means. Was that mentioned in a previous episode? The name is apt, with all the politicking and schemes that happened, but they should have just mentioned it...
Did Moiraine know that Barthanes was a Darkfriend? As usual, we are left to wonder how much Moiraine knows...

Not sure I like the cop-out of how Mat gets to Falme. And I hope that this high-on-tea thing was supposed to be the equivalent to what he learns in Rhuidean... Though it may be a replacement for flicker, but if so, I don't see why we needed it.
But very in character for Mat to drink the stupid tea

Favorite thing from this is all from Falme. Nynaeve and Elayne are great, especially how Nynaeve reacted when Loial bowed to Elayne
"How do you think it feels?"
"I don't know, but I hope it hurts."
I hope this means that the girls will rescue Egwene on their own, like in the books, and not need help from anyone else... Then they'll see Rand in the sky above Falme and realise he is alive

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Also, despite the episode being called Daes Daemar, no one actually said that, or explained what that means. Was that mentioned in a previous episode? The name is apt, with all the politicking and schemes that happened, but they should have just mentioned it...

yeah, I don't remember anyone mentioning it in a previous episode ( think the only mention was "their Game of Houses", but not the old tongue name), I had to tell my husband what it meant, so yeah no one explained it.

Not sure I like the cop-out of how Mat gets to Falme. And I hope that this high-on-tea thing was supposed to be the equivalent to what he learns in Rhuidean... Though it may be a replacement for flicker, but if so, I don't see why we needed it.
But very in character for Mat to drink the stupid tea

Pretty sure that was the flicker flicker thing, I think we will see Rhuidean, that was why he saw himself dangling from a rope in that mirror vision.
But yeah, just like him going through the red stone doorway in Tear, drinking a sus tea is just right on character

 

[Sorcha Al'Verdan]

For a moment I was certain that Rand was gonna still Moiraine by accident. But I had called him 'healing' her before that. Good on Lan doing the legwork to figure all that out!

Mat's line to Ishy was freaking hilarious. And that tea was some bullshit, I hope he snaps out of whatever TF that was about.

Glad they kept Barty being a DF. I thought they might change it to Anvaere.

Can't wait to see Egwene beat tf out of Renna with that pitcher lol. Totally want to see her collared so bad. Evil beyotch.

Loved the bit of Aiel culture we got to see. Discharge that Toh, lady

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

Did Moiraine know that Barthanes was a Darkfriend? As usual, we are left to wonder how much Moiraine knows...

Considering that in the previous episode, Moiraine told him that she thought he'd make a good king, I doubt she knew, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to say that.

I'm still struggling with coming to terms with how Siuan is reacting to Rand and Moiraine both and her plans to try to keep him a White Tower prisoner because in the books, her and Moiraine's whole objective is to make sure Rand is free to affect the world. I get that in the show, she's more worried about the White Tower's handle on the whole situation, but it just irks me. I so badly wanted Rand to flex and bust out of that shield.

Loved Aviendha meeting up with Bain and Chiad. I wonder if Aviendha is just going to replace some of Gaul's plotlines now.

I can't wait for Egwene to get her revenge. Madeleine Madden is such a good actress. She really had me going once Renna explained about what the Seanchan were doing, I thought she was sofening up toward Renna a little bit, and then the "I will kill you" line came out and I geeked out so hard.

I was also geeking out hard with the Cat Crosses the Courtyard scene. That was something that I'd been looking forward to in season 1 and thought they were going to skip over entirely, but it was nice to see Rand and Lan bond a little bit.

Also with all this talk of prophecy about the Dragon proclaiming himself over Falme, I wonder if they're going to do away with the capture of the Stone of Tear. I know there are multiple prophecies and all, but how many times is he going to publicly announce who he is?

 

[Sorcha Al'Verdan]

Ooh OOh and also Siuan totally thinks Moiraine is a Darkfriend right now. She 'lied' and now Lanfear is helping them get away. Moiraine is gonna get tarred and feathered as Black Ajah. Will word get to Egwene and Nynaeve and Elayne somehow? Meanwhile, Verin totally confirmed her status.

 

[rebornoldtimer]

Considering that in the previous episode, Moiraine told him that she thought he'd make a good king, I doubt she knew, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to say that.

I'm still struggling with coming to terms with how Siuan is reacting to Rand and Moiraine both and her plans to try to keep him a White Tower prisoner because in the books, her and Moiraine's whole objective is to make sure Rand is free to affect the world. I get that in the show, she's more worried about the White Tower's handle on the whole situation, but it just irks me. I so badly wanted Rand to flex and bust out of that shield.

Loved Aviendha meeting up with Bain and Chiad. I wonder if Aviendha is just going to replace some of Gaul's plotlines now.

I can't wait for Egwene to get her revenge. Madeleine Madden is such a good actress. She really had me going once Renna explained about what the Seanchan were doing, I thought she was sofening up toward Renna a little bit, and then the "I will kill you" line came out and I geeked out so hard.

I was also geeking out hard with the Cat Crosses the Courtyard scene. That was something that I'd been looking forward to in season 1 and thought they were going to skip over entirely, but it was nice to see Rand and Lan bond a little bit.

Also with all this talk of prophecy about the Dragon proclaiming himself over Falme, I wonder if they're going to do away with the capture of the Stone of Tear. I know there are multiple prophecies and all, but how many times is he going to publicly announce who he is?

I wonder how much of the books storyline can be ‘done away with’ before it’s no longer the wheel of time.

I understand changes have to be made, and I’ve written before it’s an ‘adaptation’ after all, but, as much as I’m enjoying the series (when I stop myself from being overly critical) I think I will have to just accept that the TV show is going to have less and less in common with the books as each episode goes by.

Siuan is totally different to my mental image of her from the books, and not in a good way.

Mat is still a bit of a disaster, and comes across as an afterthought most of the time, and I’m also not really happy with how Min had been presented.

Some characters have worked very well however, Loial, Aviendha, Egwene, Nyneave, and Rand is starting to improve.

I’m still undecided about Perrin.

As for Moiraine, I never really liked her in the books, and I don’t like her in the show either so I guess that’s pretty accurate!

Oh and I just remembered, I think Elayne had been portrayed and written very well.

On the dark side Ishy and lovely sweet Lanfear are great.

 

[Syera Faelron]

I am not sure on story arcs and going forward. I do love the show, it's still great.
Yes I knew the shield was intricate.
I didn't like part of the Scooby gang going with Lanfear..
OK
I'm invested in the show

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

I've been thinking about the scene involving Lan and his discernment concerning Moiraine's stilling. Throughout the season I didn't like Lan's arc.
Frankly, at the end of the arc I found it nothing short of brilliant.

What makes this scene so satisfying is that Lan, as Moiraine's warder, is best positioned to notice any inconsistencies in her behavior. Unlike anyone else, he's been with Moiraine long enough to perceive even subtle shifts in her demeanor. Six months of close observation led him to start questioning the accepted narrative (Moiraine is stilled).

Lan's interactions with Logain and Rand served as the catalysts for Lan to act on his suspicions, bringing his mental investigation to a gratifying end. It's a great moment, not just because he figured it out, but because he did so under incredibly tough circumstances. This illustrates that Lan's strength isn't only in his sword but also in his keen observational skills, emotional intelligence, and deductive reasoning.

To me, this serves as a high point in Lan's character arc. It is an arc built on loyalty, duty, and keen observation. It's an incredibly powerful moment that encapsulates the essence of his role as a warder: the protector who is always alert, always watching, and always prepared to do what's necessary, even when the odds seem insurmountable.

 

[Sorcha Al'Verdan]

I've been finding more and more in common with the books as the story goes on, the flavors have changed from the big changes though.

I explain it to myself as this being a Mirror of the Wheel. In the books, Selene said to Rand there are worlds where you could go and find yourself, but it woudn't be the same you. That pretty much sums it up for me. The only things it has to have in common with the books for me to maintain this explanation are the DO being locked up and TAR. Both of those things are true so it's all canon to me

 

[Megana Vallentin]

They do? Why do you think that?

The Aelfinn/Eelfinn would take a lot of screen time to set up and explain, plus potentially a special set, more actors, costumes, make-up, etc. But tea? Drugs that lead to hallucinations that might be foreshadowing or somehow meaningful in other ways? It only took a brief explanation from Ishy to explain that one. We only get 8 episodes and there are a lot of other things I'd rather see than Mat in Finn-land, if we can get to the same result in a simpler way.

The Siuan stuff actually feels especially genius to me, because this whole season has been showing us Moiraine acting on her own, pushing her allies away, concealing things for what feel like incomprehensible reasons. Of course there are going to be consequences from that and Siuan is the perfect explosion. Having such a big conflict between the two of them not only puts a schism in what could have been a powerful duo that rallied support for Rand and the Last Battle, but also puts a schism between the Tower and all of our heroes AND a schism between Siuan and the Tower, once they learn more about what just happened. Instead of everyone coming together for the Dragon Reborn, they're all fracturing apart, exactly what the Forsaken would want and exactly what we ultimately see happen in the books.

 

[Tobyas Cuendrelle]

I explain it to myself as this being a Mirror of the Wheel. In the books, Selene said to Rand there are worlds where you could go and find yourself, but it woudn't be the same you. That pretty much sums it up for me

rightttt WoT is the perfect matrix for different adaptations, because an explanation of the differences between them is already native in the books
{lol for a minute during the nynaeve Arches bit i was like.. is she... is she just in an alternate mirrorverse now, and she's gonna like. help them from there? or they will find her when they start blipping into these mirrorverses?}

tea? Drugs that lead to hallucinations that might be foreshadowing or somehow meaningful in other ways?

see that scene made no sense to me. afaik mat's 'past selves' was supposed to be about his kind of link to the Old Tongue and his past heroic incarnations, and that's a theme in the books for him. but now it's like. him.. drowning his family or something? 👍👍 okayy?

the Forsaken just wanting everything to Stop is real tho. they need some therapy for depression

 

[Viktara Fen]

I explain it to myself as this being a Mirror of the Wheel.

Agreed. That's more or less been my take on the TV show since S1. Thinking of it as a Mirror World allows me to release the expectation that it should be judged in terms of how well it performs as a 1:1 adaptation of the books, which it could never have been hoped to be. That lets me just enjoy it on its own terms and have fun with it.

 

[bluetear111]

Im just wondering how long do we all think the last episode will be? I know these episodes are a touch over an hour long, but i cant help but feel where the characters are poised at the end of episode 7, it seems like there is still so much to cover for us to get to the end of the great hunt.

Will we get a 90 minute episode?

 

[Megana Vallentin]

see that scene made no sense to me. afaik mat's 'past selves' was supposed to be about his kind of link to the Old Tongue and his past heroic incarnations, and that's a theme in the books for him. but now it's like. him.. drowning his family or something? 👍👍 okayy?

I agree with you there, I can see the justification for tea as a method of imparting the info but what the heck *was* the info?? It was very weird and chaotic to me and hopefully I'll pick up more when I rewatch but eesh.