S2E2 "Strangers and Friends" -- w/ Book Spoilers

[Ilverin Matriam]

For any and all thoughts about Season 2 Episode 2, Strangers and Friends!

This is the thread with SPOILERS from the books! If you don't want anything spoiled and you haven't read the books please take advantage of the NO spoilers thread!

 

[Arella Mathara]

Spoiler

Hate:
• Liandrin being shown as a person with feelings
Maybe instead of someone being a darkfriend before joining the Tower she will start looking to the Dark when losing her son? 🤔
• Lan and Moiraine (yes I see what she's most likely doing, hate that trope for them tho)

Not sure yet/neutral:
• Min

Love:
• Elayne
• Min and Mat

 

[Arinna Katal]

I need an entire Min and Mat buddy comedy spinoff, just saying....

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

I need an entire Min and Mat buddy comedy spinoff, just saying....

Yeah, I don't understand why they didn't have more interaction in the books, they would definitely act like they do in the show!

 

[Arinna Katal]

Yeah, I don't understand why they didn't have more interaction in the books, they would definitely act like they do in the show!

Ohhhhhh man I just realized that they could eventually have a whole sequel series with Mat and Min getting up to shenanigans in Seanchan (Seananigans, if you will; in fact, that’s the title, I’ve just decided) and I really want to watch that

 

[Elanda Tonil]

Cliff notes version of my opinions:
- So far I think the changes are generally reasonable and in some cases add to the character arcs.
- Mat I’m fairly happy with.

Spoiler

This will give him a reason for his pretty extreme distrust of Aes Sedai going forward. I just wanna see him beat up someone with a staff.

- Elayne I’m pretty meh on. But I’m fairly meh on book Elayne too so they’ve hit the mark pretty well imo.
- Nynaeve/Liandrin I don’t like. But I think it’s a good change anyway.

Spoiler

Following Liandrin from the Tower in bk 2 straight up doesn’t make sense to me. They didn’t know her at all and had no reason to trust her. This is setting up a real motivation for them to actually go with her.

- Rand…I still think they should cut Rand from the story altogether. He’s such an annoying character.
- also Rand, I’m happy they jumped straight to Cairhien. Everything before Cairhien for him felt like fluff. Fluff that’s way more fun to read than to watch, imo.
- Selene…in what universe would Selene be okay with him thinking of anyone except her during sex? They haven’t changed her, they removed her and replaced her with their own creation.
- Perrin, I can see why they made these changes and I’m okay with it. I want to see more before I pass judgement.
- Seanchan I like so far. I wish they’d made Suroth’s allegiance more subtle. Having Ishamael there was significantly too heavy handed for me.
- Sheriam, I’m loving the Sheriam/Liandrin dance. I’m watching it with my sister who hasn’t read the last few books so she doesn’t know Sheriam’s arc and that’s delightful. I am very interested to see how they have all that play out.
- I’m not cool with the Verin/Vandene situation. They’re such different people, and it feels like it’s robbing Verin of a lot.
- Elyas, imo they’ve completely missed on Elyas as well. Elyas is one of my favorite book chars and this isn’t him at all. And I’m not okay with cutting Hurin. They’ve been searching for characters to kill off, *cough*AgelmarStepin*cough*, cutting the one-book characters seems ludicrous when they could get the emotional impact with characters who were actually in the books but only there short term.
- loved the Fade on the gate
- They should’ve left in the draghkar
- I wanna see what they do with the Accepted test. Definitely looking forward to that.

All in all, I’m happier than I expected to be. I’m looking forward to watching Ep 3 tomorrow.

 

[Arella Mathara]

I was really distracted when posting my list. Just realised there's a lot missing? Anyways, here's an updated version, lol

Yay
• Elayne. I liked her in the very beginning in the books too and she has her new moments, but I generally find her boring af
• Min and Mat. Nice camaraderie but it will probably get old pretty fast tbh
• Nynaeve being nosey and wanting to help

Nay:
• Liandrin being shown as a person with feelings
Maybe instead of someone being a darkfriend before joining the Tower she will start looking to the Dark when losing her son? 🤔
I hope not. Would like to see something like that in flashbacks tho (for any Darkfriend)
• Lan and Moiraine (yes I see what she's most likely doing, hate that trope for them tho)
• No dragkhar
• Suroth and her obscene palanquin travelling with two damane/sul'dam and a handful of soldiers to a tiny village. Yeah, no
• Uno. I got this spoiled but still not cool. Kinda cool way it happened tho, ngl

Meh:
• Min (I don't like book Min, not sure about show Min yet)
• Selene being okay with the thought of Rand thinking of others. Either she's faking or they're going for her seeing Rand as just a substitute. I can get on board with the first but don't like the second option. I meant even if she did she would still wish to be his entire world

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

- Rand…I still think they should cut Rand from the story altogether. He’s such an annoying character.

wouldn't that be best

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, the Selene part is just strange. We get no explanation to how they met or anything.
I'm hoping the Rand-Logain meeting is more than this!

 

[Viktara Fen]

That ridiculous palanquin! I was caught between laughing myself breathless at how absurd it was and kind of admiring what a strange and incongruous spectacle it made, and how that really hammers home that the Seanchan are going to be a very different kind of foe. Also reminded me not a little of Xerxes' ridiculous palanquin/wagon/sexy-palace thing in Frank Miller's 300.

I am bummed that we have not seen any dragkhar, or any grolm or other weird Seanchan beasties so far.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yes, the palanquin was just so perfectly over-the-top and strange! And the nails!
The Seanchan helmets are also good. The overall effect gives a vibe of other-ness and strange-ness that is perfect. And how the damane just casually points to the women who could channel while the so'jihn was talking...

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

OK, I am ready with my notes from this episode:

Something that annoyed me:
- Alanna and Sheriam scene – why are the Warders speaking? Why do they know how powerful Egwene or Elayne, or Logain or Mazrim Taim are… it was unnecessary to involve them Alanna could've said all of that.
- Verin says she thinks "it’s one of the boys who Moiraine brought to the Tower last AUTUMN," it wasn’t autumn…. Ugh, trying to save their timeline mistake.

Things I liked a lot:
- Verin is giving many more “knowing” looks.
- Accepted’s sleeve cuffs – small flames of tar valon colored in the different ajahs, it was a very pretty effect. However, the novices and accepted dresses are different from the little they showed in , season1 I noticed.
- I like how convincing Liandrin is, I can see Nynaeve thinking and considering what Liandrin is saying and getting this desire to become Accepted, to learn how to be a powerful channeler.
- Meeting Elayne for the first time is very funny, “Mine was full of rubbish too” RUDE But she carries herself as a princess and that she is knowledgeable about her people, like in the books. And then Elayne gets punished by Sheriam, I like that scene and how well Elayne took it
- Music – when Mat was cutting out that brick was a nice melody, when the Shienarans enter Atuan’s mill it’s the same theme song as when Rand and Mat go into Breen’s Spring
- Mat’s mischievous smiles, like he is innocent, absolutely amazing.
- Verin's "Even oaths have loopholes one can exploit." *chef's kiss*, delicious

Similarities/differences from the books:
- Perrin has the vision with the family getting killed like Rand had in the Great Hunt, then there were only flies in the room
- Difference from the books – Elayne is there first in the Tower and then Egwene moves in after.
- Lionfish gets a cameo
- Verin and Adeleas are writing "History of the World Since the Breaking," so she is merged with Vandene
- Foregate scene, where the big puppet makes a cameo, could it be used later again?

Wondering about:
- Rand and Errol, who is Errol, a fighter in the Aiel war, Rand picks up a fallen over horse, what does this horse signify? Cavalry? Or Tear?
- Is Alanna a Sitter? I didn’t get that impression from last season
- Borderlands are a dessert
- Why does Adeleas know so much about Warders?
- Why do the Aes Sedai use lanterns and not balls of light?
- Lan says to Moiraine "An aes sedai cannot lie", and then she tells him "We were never equals," which might have been a lie, which means that "cut off" means stilling, so she can lie (aka no three oaths)

OK, something I must mention here, that evolves into what happens in episode 3
- When she went to summon Nynaeve, Liandrin says, "if I could take back what was set into motion, I would." I will get back to this after watching episode 3 again, but I think Liandrin had something to do with Nynaeve remaining in the arches, something that in the books happened at her Aes Sedai test instead.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

"We were never equals," which might have been a lie, which means that "cut off" means stilling, so she can lie (aka no three oaths)

I love that this one could be taken both ways. The way it was intended to be taken is that she is superior. But a more subtle way of looking at it is that she believes he is superior to her and as such she would not waste his life on something small when he could do much more good by living and rallying his people.

Both are true to the words she used.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

That was how I see it too. She didn't lie, she said they were never equals. Her self-confidence is at an all-time low, so she could say that and mean that he is worth more than her. Or at least that she values his life more than her own.
She is a master of word-play after all.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

- Verin's "Even oaths have loopholes one can exploit." *chef's kiss*, delicious

This might be my favorite line out of the two episodes I've seen so far.

The only two things I wasn't super a fan of so far were:
- Liandrin apparently needing a tragic backstory. I guess it's meant to help us/Nynaeve trust her more? But I felt like she was hitting a good balance of being a dislikable-but-not-necessarily-evil character, who Nynaeve is willing to go along with because she might be the best teacher for Nynaeve's unusual case. I didn't need any more than that.
- Selene, in general. With what book readers know about Selene, it doesn't make any sense to me for the same reasons others have stated here. If you take away book knowledge, the lack of any explanation (thus far?) of their relationship doesn't help the situation either.

Just my two cents though, in general I'm a very un-salty person and did a whole lot of squeeing.

 

[Cahalan Sothron]

Min (I don't like book Min, not sure about show Min yet)

I dislike book Min, as well, but to this point I like show Min better. I like that she's more "tough chick" than "cutesy", which was how I always found her in the books. Fingers crossed that keeps up.

 

[Lithiel Morn]

Spoiler

Following Liandrin from the Tower in bk 2 straight up doesn’t make sense to me. They didn’t know her at all and had no reason to trust her. This is setting up a real motivation for them to actually go with her.

I always had the impression that this was because she's an Aes Sedai and they had to. In the show so far, they've already altered the relationship between Novices/Accepted and Aes Sedai - Novices seem to be able to get away with a lot more when it comes to their behaviour towards Aes Sedai than they could in the books. In the books - at least according to the impression I've got - an Aes Sedai's authority is not something you go against easily. So when they did as they did in Book 2, I think it's because they were too scared of what would happen if they didn't, as in, it was safer to just go along with it.​