Current Events Forum Changes

Discussion in 'Site Announcements' started by Mieriana Souvra, Jun 7, 2020.

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  1. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    I have seen huge changes in Stephen’s behavior and I’ve seen him be greatly concerned with hurting others’ feelings, and believe me when I say I am the last person I thought would say that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  2. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    new opinion: this is great and the only better option would be if CE was removed altogether.

    unpopular opinion: talking about "the purge" and whatever other anxiety-driven fearfulness comes from folks who have never had their ideas challenged in a real and relentless way. This will be nothing like twitter or reddit political conversations, because we're not anonymous or unknown to each other. If folks think some sort of "agree to disagree" deal is the only way to have these conversations, then yeah, I can see why they'd be worried about what an unmoderated discussion might look like.

    shit-stirring opinion: the "moderation" that CE had before is what lead to the vast majority of the hostility present in the first place. I hope those of you who have been here long enough still remember that while Kelgan was DoMoD he frequently posted in CE, and oversaw moderation actions that were either directed at him or reported by him. Asandra thankfully stopped this particular practice during her tenure as DoMoD, but regular CE moderators still posted and participated. I get that there was some...desperation...to this particular aspect, as it was hard enough to get CE moderators, but then telling them they weren't allowed to post would make it more difficult. But real moderation is not, in fact, the censoring of some key words, nor is it carried out by biased members who are a part of the conversation in question.

    Anyway, if anyone here is a threeper or a pb or what have you, feel free to lmk now so I can eviscerate you in all but the actual literal sense of the word. Otherwise, look forward to me telling you your ideas and actions are racist when they are, and otherwise engaging in lively conversations.
     
  3. Stephen Lightheart

    Stephen Lightheart Aes Sedai

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    Google was able to tell me that a "threeper" is an American gun lover. I figured "lmk" out on my own, after staring at it for a bit. (Proudest moment of my day, obviously.) What's a "pb," though? Google's unhelpful there. Thanks!
     
  4. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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  5. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    Correct. Kelgan was the least biased moderator I've ever come across. He made it very clear most times when he was posting as a mod and when he wasn't. Sorry if you didn't appreciate his point of view and that's completely allowed, he and I rarely see eye to eye, but you can't fault his objectivity as a moderator.
     
  6. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    I really can and I really will.
     
  7. Stephen Lightheart

    Stephen Lightheart Aes Sedai

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  8. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    I more or less agree with this :)
     
  9. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    Well you shouldn’t because what I said is true, but I know you will anyway, so ok.
     
  10. Elia LePhant

    Elia LePhant Aes Sedai Historian

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    Discounting other peoples experiences just because they didn't happen to you doesn't make it truth.
     
  11. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    I mean, a person unwillingly to recuse themselves in the barest minimum way possible from conversations within the purview of their power is not an unbiased person, whatever you think of their other actions and decisions.
     
  12. Rollyn Montagorae

    Rollyn Montagorae Gaidin

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    Likewise, discounting a criticism because the critic wasn't involved in the conflict doesn't make it untrue.
     
  13. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    "the conflict" being... Kelgan not recusing himself of posting in CE while he was DoMoD?

    Right. Try to keep up, Rollyn.
     
  14. Elia LePhant

    Elia LePhant Aes Sedai Historian

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    I'm not really understanding what you are getting at if this is in response to what I said.
     
  15. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    Alright, since y'all apparently want to give me a headache here, let me try to explain it. Sorry, I don't have the wherewithal to add pictures and diagrams.

    This is a community.

    In communities, people form friendships, and also they find people they dislike.

    People, as a whole, are biased. To my knowledge, no one here is a literal robot. If you are, A) that's badass, and B) please take over this site and make it better. But moving on...

    Every DoMod, mod, person with authority is biased. They will naturally look more favorably on people they are friends with, or who share their worldview, and less favorably on those they dislike or have opposing world views with.

    Still with me? None of this is controversial.

    So, people can, with varying degrees of success, work to mitigate their own bias when they are put in positions of power that come with decision making authority.

    This involves a fair amount of personal reflection, which may not always be apparent to outside viewers. But it also involves concrete, visible actions. In places and conversations where there is conflict, power dynamics will always come into play, no matter even the best of intentions. This is why we have (had?) an explicit rule of no "sedai/gaidin"-ing in CE. Even a small, relatively unimportant and artificial power hierarchy can influence the way people interact with each other.

    But. The literal barest thing you can do, as an authority figure, is recuse yourself of interactions that have the potential to create conflict, the resolution of which conflicts then fall under your authority.

    It literally does not matter if, after the fact, some unbiased group goes through and looks at all of Kelgan's decisions and says "yep, you were definitely unbiased. well done". Because that's not the issue. The issue is the unwillingness to acknowledge not just optics, but the effects of those optics on both members of the community and members of the moderation team.

    The inability to recognize how power dynamics affect sensitive discussions is extremely telling of the general direction moderation has gone since then, even with Asandra's correction to this particular part of the rules.
     
  16. Rollyn Montagorae

    Rollyn Montagorae Gaidin

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    Two days off but we still couldn't resist bringing CE over here to this thread. :p We really are an insatiable bunch.
     
  17. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    Nah, it doesn't take a special forum for me to point out when people are full of shit.
     
  18. Zashara Sho'am

    Zashara Sho'am The Dark One Aes Sedai Master of the Watch

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    Lol. Thanks for letting us know you're the authority on what is true and what isn't. Guess we should just shut up and sit in the corner in our wrongness.

    (Aka I agree with Eluial)
     
  19. Vallah al'Dera

    Vallah al'Dera Aes Sedai

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    Bias is real, and just like in the real world, this site can be quite cliquey at times, especially those in positions of authority.
    Tis why I've been decidedly less active for the past 10-12 years.
     
  20. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    I figured as much.

    Also, welcome to a preview of what those two new fora will be like. I hope you all enjoy them.
     
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