2015 Re-Readalong: Eye of the World and The Great Hunt

Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
355
Age
37
Location
Texas
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

Well I finished up EotW and will be picking up my copy of The Great Hunt tomorrow. (I read these first books out of the library back in the day)

Let me just say that I had a couple of moments when I was reading through the last 200 pages or so where I literally said out loud "I love this series." or "This is so badass".

Let me just echo an earlier sentiment tho about how frustrated I am that we spent an entire 800 pages traveling only to change our final destination from Tar Valon to the Eye of the World. And frankly for a book called TEotW I feel like we spent a large amount of time not actually discussing the Eye of the World until the very end.

It was kind of humorous to me that the Green Man guides our first Forsaken to the eye only to come back later to fight them. I was really sad when he died, his body bursting into the 500 year old tree to hold back the blight. Later when Loial sings his song to preserve his life I kept trying to imagine what it would sound like in real life but fell short of coming to a conclusion about that. Does anyone else have anything in mind?

I found this channeling section as dicey and confusing as y'all did, and now I understand why I was so confused by the end of this book. I'm glad that it didn't turn me off of continuing the series.

So at the end of this book, does Rand actually realize he's the Dragon Reborn yet? I think he says that he believes Moiraine intends to use him as a False Dragon but I don't think he's actually made the realization yet. I think this comes in the TGH if memory serves well.

I would write more but you all had lengthy discussions already about many of the things I wanted more clarification over. I will hopefully be caught up within the next week or so.

Also if anyone else is using the audio books as I'm reading along while I listen, I love the male and female narrator but I just can't stand the Male narrators voice for Egwene or Moiraine. Totally throws me off. The same for the female narrator and her Lan. Kind of makes me laugh during otherwise serious moments. :P
 

Kassina Tendar

Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
11,584
Age
36
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

So at the end of this book, does Rand actually realize he's the Dragon Reborn yet? I think he says that he believes Moiraine intends to use him as a False Dragon but I don't think he's actually made the realization yet. I think this comes in the TGH if memory serves well.
Yeah, I think he believes he can channel, but it's a bit of a leap for him to go from 'I can channel' to 'I'm the Dragon Reborn.' There are false dragons who can channel, after all. So I'd think his first thought was "Damn, this really sucks. I'm one of those poor men who can channel and is doomed to go mad and die and, to top it off, Moiraine and the White Tower want me to pretend to be the Dragon!" So then it really hits him in TGH when Siuan tells him flat-out that he's the Dragon Reborn. He still struggles against it, but in TGH he's starting to believe it.
 

Kassina Tendar

Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
11,584
Age
36
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

I only had a few highlights for the reading this time. As you've all said, there's not too much to comment on.

Rand said:
The innkeeper was a lean women with a long nose and graying hair, but her wrinkles seemed part of her ready smile more than anything else.
Good for you, Rand, you seem to have gotten over your thing about thin innkeepers. :laugh:


Nynaeve said:
I must make Moiraine pay for what she has done to us. I must "I am ready."
:rofl I love how her main motivation to become Aes Sedai is to get revenge on Moiraine. I didn't forget about her rivalry with Moiraine after my first read-through, but I'd somehow underestimated it in my head afterward.

Moiraine said:
The Amyrlin knows as much as I, that I swear.
Sneaky, Moiraine. ;)
 

Ryu Shadowborn

Resident Citizen
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
1,164
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

TGH 1

One would think that a place like Fal Dara would have a practice yard for training in swordsmanship, it would be quite a bit safer than fighting on top of a watch tower, I wonder how the Heron became a sign of a general in the age of legends, Also on the subject of power-forged weapons, how did armor that was power-forged not be a thing, especially Quendellar, maybe not like straight armor made out of the stuff but perhaps a Quendellar shield would be perfectly usable, if it is too heavy a Wooden Shield with bands of Quendellar would also be a very useful thing to have in battle.

TGH 2 :

Rand gets new clothing, I want some clothing like what is described in these books in all honesty, a nice long sleeved Jacket with patterns down the arms sounds kind of cool actually, especially opposed to what is considered “nice” wear in the real world.

TGH 3:

Two major things here.

I hate what goes down in this chapter involving Rand trying to push his friends away, I understand it logically but it is hard to read, especially when Rand insults Loial, Loial did not deserve that! Loial does not deserve anything bad to happen to him ever.

I do love the mental image of Egwane just straight up sitting on Rand, she just tackles him and plants herself on his back, and we see Padan Fain for the first time in the book, If there is any character who needed more screentime in the latter half of the series it is Fain, simply because the mystery of Mordeth and how being possessed allowed Fain to break his oaths to the Dark One.

TGH 4 :

It is interesting how outright antagonistic Liandrin is here, even without knowing what she is later the Culture of the Red Ajah seems to be outright rude to the other groups of Aes Sedai, between her and Elaida we can see why the tower split happens when a Red leads what is more or less a military coup against the Amyrlin.

Also it is amazing that Moraine, Siuan and Lan have basically done this entire 20 year plot all on their own, even with Siuan as the Most powerful woman in the world it surprises me that it can at all happen that they can do all of this research on their own.

TGH 5 :

How did Illian get tied to the horn? Through all of the series we never find out what the supposed connection between the two is, the horn spends most of the series in the Vault of the Tower and never ends up where it was originally tied to.

TGH 6 :

This is an interesting chapter to me, simply because in a world where I got really lucky and were asked to design a Wheel of Time MMORPG, this is where I would begin, and instead of following the series straight up, I would have a “twist” in the Pattern occur and have Fain not be released, and instead Rand goes with Mat and Perrin to Illian, Mat would be dropped off at the tower on the way.

Why would I do it like that? I would do it so that we could go through the events of the series and be able to pull off unexpected events, such as Sheinar falling under Fain's influence, Andor's split with the tower would be deeper because Elaine, Nyneave and Egwane would not have been freed from Tomon Head, and the Seanchan would have a strong foothold, as well as the High Blood Seanchan Ruler Turak would still be in charge, effectively it would create a huge butterfly effect that could explore many different avenues of the characters and setting.

Now for the chapter itself, Fain escapes. I wonder how this went down, shouldn't Mat and Egwane have been in the jail when Fain was released? or did Fain just...sit there and wait for someone to come before running out, also I wonder what Ingtar did after Rand left that Fade. It makes me sad to read that scene knowing what Ingtar is, I thought he was just being..awesome McAwesomeness and telling Rand to go look after his gal while being all badass and fighting a Fade 1 v 1 which only Lan has really done in this point of the series.

Two more things, Does Liandrin know who Rand is? is she aware he is the dragon? and RAND YOU FOOL you want to get to know Verin, people who seek knowledge are great and should always be kept near.
 

Imzadi Hopewind

Aes Sedai
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
9,052
Location
Oslo, Norway
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

Dunno, like him somewhat better. Just to make Imzadi Hopewind angry, lets compare him to Vidkun Quisling, who also wanted to do something good for his country, but was cheated from the first day on and found no honorable exit like Ingtar.
Yes.

You don't make me mad, just because you use a real historical person to compare with! ;)

What strike me, is when I read the chapter where Nynaeve is raised to Accepted, when she walks thru the rings and at the last ring, she used power to make the ring appear again, that is what happen with Egwene as well, when she walked thru the rings. So I wonder, did they both do that because they were strong in power?
 

Megana Vallentin

Aes Sedai
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
5,443
Location
Charlotte, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
megthegray
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

Imz, I've always wondered about that. "The way back will come but once"...but it came TWICE! What does it mean, what does it mean?

My notes from this week...

Chapter 17:

Rand using the Portal Stone just feels terrifying, after learning more about the Power and how delicate the work is and how very little he knew about what he was doing.

Chapter 18:

What was the dark glob that the Amyrlin made Nynaeve swallow? But more importantly, where did it come from? I know you can create things like fire using the One Power, or whatever Rand's sword was made out of, but making something that's edible? Is that really a thing?

Chapter 19:

LOVED the scene of Rand tiptoeing through the camp to get the Horn and the dagger. All along with Ingtar chasing Fain, it felt like there would have to be some big battle at the end before they could reclaim it, and now Rand just walks in and takes it. The suspense was so much more thrilling than a battle!

Chapter 20:

Everytime Lanfear screws up in her attempts to manipulate Rand, I cackle out loud.

Chapter 21:

I hate daes dae'mar almost as much as Lanfear.

Chapter 22:

What did Moiraine figure out? Is it revealed later and I just don't remember?

Chapter 23:

LOVED the Accepted test. I wish we could see it for more characters. It tells so much about their personalities.
 

Kassina Tendar

Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
11,584
Age
36
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

Megana said:
"The way back will come but once"...but it came TWICE! What does it mean, what does it mean?
Yeah, I always wondered about them channeling the way back as well. I guess the Aes Sedai who use the ter'angreal don't really understand it. They found it and figured out what it did and so built this ceremony around it because it helps and gets a majority of the novices who go through it back in one piece... but they don't actually know how it works.

Megana said:
What was the dark glob that the Amyrlin made Nynaeve swallow? But more importantly, where did it come from? I know you can create things like fire using the One Power, or whatever Rand's sword was made out of, but making something that's edible? Is that really a thing?
I had the exact same thought while reading that. :scratch

Megana said:
What did Moiraine figure out? Is it revealed later and I just don't remember?
When I got to that part, I went back and reread her conversation with Vandene. The only thing I could come up with was Vandene's comment about Lanfear being linked with the Dragon... but I'm not sure what that would've meant to Moiraine because how could she have known Lanfear was free? :scratch
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
128
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

I guess the Aes Sedai who use the ter'angreal don't really understand it. They found it and figured out what it did and so built this ceremony around it because it helps and gets a majority of the novices who go through it back in one piece... but they don't actually know how it works.
I guess that is a good theory. Neither does the author explain much about it - the scenarios are somewhat like TAR, dreamshards produced from the memories of the women who go though the ter'angreal. But what exactly does Nynaeve do? (1) She visualizes the gateway - that could do it in TAR. (2) She opens herself to Saidar, but we do not learn if or what she does with it - interfere with the internal controls of the ter'angreal? (3) And what about the thorns? Interesting, that the lesions do not Heal completely, we will see this later with TAR wounds in Verin and Perrin.

Imzadi Hopewind said:
... that is what happen with Egwene as well, when she walked thru the rings. So I wonder, did they both do that because they were strong in power?
Both use the Power - Nynaeve is told "you should not have been able to do it" - some kind of block? Then breaking through it may be a matter of strength. With Egwene - I checked the relevant chapter in TDR - the issue does not come up: she doesn't tell she did it and hence noone tells her she shouldn't have. But rule-abiding as she is, she leaves (if at the last moment) from the regular gateway.
In both, the experience leaves a strong feeling of guilt. Is that a good foundation to build a career on? The rings at Rhuidean seem to be a much smarter device.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
16,243
Age
46
Location
Tennessee
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Maibella#7994
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 17-23

Both use the Power - Nynaeve is told "you should not have been able to do it" - some kind of block? Then breaking through it may be a matter of strength.

It's not a block. I think it was Sheriam who was with Nynaeve and explained that the Aes Sedai who first tested the rings were burned out when they tried to use the power inside. Those AS were warded when they went in, and didn't experience the memory loss, and therefore remembered that they could channel. But when they did Channel, they came out of the rings unable to even sense the Power any more. Later AS who were sent in were not warded, and once inside they didn't remember that they could Channel. They came out just fine.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
128
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 24-30

@Maibella Rhoiden: Thank you for the correction - so it remains a mystery.
 

Iria Saronin

Novice
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
577
Location
Finland
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 24-30

Chapter 17:

Rand using the Portal Stone just feels terrifying, after learning more about the Power and how delicate the work is and how very little he knew about what he was doing.
I agree. :brown-blink: But while reading, I started wondering if it was Lanfear who initially used the Portal Stone to send Rand apart from major group. How else could she have known where they went? When they went back I guess it was really Rand doing it - with maybe some unconscious memory of Lews Therin..? I know he felt Saidin creeping around him just before he fell asleep, but somehow it seems very unlikely to me that he would've done it without trying.

I've been out for a while, but did someone already point out those cloudy lines in the sky of the other world? Airplanes? I enjoy these small details so much. :pleased-1:

I also loved the accepted test, and it got me thinking where does the 'future' part of it come from. Later with Egwene we see that it is actually almost the real future, just twisted a bit ("I never swore the oaths"). And I'd like to think that Nynaeve's future with Lan was much like it seemed in the test.
 

Rhed al'Tere

Aes Sedai
Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
14,069
Location
Durham, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

I'm caught up on reading, just not on sharing notes!

Chapter 8

  • Nynaeve feels a storm that is not a storm.
Chapter 9

  • Hurin wasn't born a sniffer (this is something I'd forgotten since the last time I read).
  • We see the deep enmity between Tear and Illian for the first time.
  • Who is it Domon carries from Mayene to Illian?
  • "Someone wanted [Domon] to go east." Why? Away from Seanchan? Directing all traders away to hte east, or just him?
  • Why have Domon hanged? What danger is he? Or are they just trying to get the seal?
Chapter 10
  • We get a picture of what's in Ingtar's mind -- why he may have become a Darkfriend to begin with. Sounds like he thinks fighting is hopeless and so he joined the Dark One in hopes of being spared, or because it would win.
  • Ugh: What happened to the Myrdraal. Shows how dangerous and outside of everything normal people understand Fain has become.
Chapter 11
  • Rand is so determined not to do what Moiraine wants.
Chapter 12
  • Black Ajah in the Amyrlin's party: Alviarin, Liandrin, Verin
  • Egwene starts dreaming.
Chapter 14
  • I love the images that are the wolves' names.
  • Rand wants to be a shepherd, Perrin a blacksmith, but we don't see Mat wishing for an ordinary life.
  • Ingtar's determination to have the Horn -- could that be his task assigned by Ba'alzamon?
  • Verin's lie! (Or should I say Verin's Lie?)
Chapter 15
  • The streaks in the other world that look like brushes of fire did them -- do the Ashaman create a weave that does something like this?
  • Talents are fading in the Ogier -- fading, or faded already like human Talents? Are the old Ogier Talents coming back?
  • Rand, of Loial's treesinging: "Always something new, always something I didn't expect, and sometimes it isn't horrible."
  • Loial: "This land was glad for a weapon to be made." That's scary.
  • This is Rand's first time leading and having to consider how his followers see him and how he presents the situation.
  • Rand gets his first heron mark.
Chapter 16
  • SDS streak in Rand: Save the woman in trouble.
  • Rand. Hurin. Loial. All stupid. Don't think to questino how a Cairhienen knows what a grolm is.
  • Selene: "[Aes Sedai] serve where they could rule." That's what makes Selene/Lanfear unsuited to be Aes Sedai.
  • Did Selene make the grolm appear? Their showing up is very convenient.
Chapter 17
  • Is the giant pack of grolm even real? The guys only heard them, never *saw* them. Was this an illusion by Lanfear?
  • NOT OBVIOUS AT ALL the way Selene presses Rand to channel.
  • Rand "embraced" the Source, but men don't actually embrace it, they seize it and wrestle it.
  • Was the alternate world a sort of dream world where Selene/Lanfear had could have power? Did Rand loose her on the real world?
Chapter 18
  • Sheriam is Black...
  • Ogier built the Tower (not totally surprising, but something I hadn't processed previously).

I guess my most interesting thoughts from these chapters are: Did Lanfear create an illusion of the grolm to pressure Rand? And, did Rand loose Lanfear on the real world by using the Portal Stone to go from Fakeland to reality?
 

Kassina Tendar

Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
11,584
Age
36
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

"Someone wanted [Domon] to go east." Why? Away from Seanchan? Directing all traders away to hte east, or just him?
I was wondering the same thing... is this ever explained?

Chapter 24:
-It's really crazy how much Rand affected people without realizing it! With Else going to the Tower because of her encounter with him and you hear of other instances of people he met in passing whose lives were changed by that chance encounter.
-I just love all scenes that take place in the White Tower. :pleased-1: When I first read the books I couldn't get enough of them and wanted to learn everything I could about how the Tower worked. It's a pleasant surprise that I still enjoy them the second time around. :)

Chapter 25:
-Poor Rand. Forced into Daes Dae'mar. :facepalm Seriously, you'd think they'd realize that it's just not a thing outside Cairhien! And apparently people are getting murdered over it? :rolleyes
"Moiraine said I was still alive, did she? Is she with you then?"
Rand shook his head. To his surprise, Thom seemed disappointed.
Awww. :giggle

Chapter 26:
-I love when Rand winks at the innkeeper just to confuse him. :rofl
-Thom's really pushing to not have anything to deal with Rand anymore and just wants to settle down as much as he can... but he can't resist the call in the end. He's also convinced himself that Rand's not the one the Dark One's after.
-Thom recites the prophecies about the heron and dragon markings. It's interesting knowing what they mean this time around.

Chapter 27:
-Yea! Aludra! :joy
Chapter 28:
-Verin's gets so excited at the prospect of learning about the Aiel and especially about Aiel channelers and how they're discovered. I remember being fascinated by the Aiel during my first read-through and I just wanted to learn as much about them as I could!
-
Urien said:
When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old.
True... but it's not quite so easy. Nor will you be at all happy to discover what your 'places of old' actually were.
-It's interesting how ingrained the idea of the Aiel failing the Aes Sedai is. It's fascinating to see how Urien reacts to Verin, expecting her to kill him even.
Urien said:
Bring your lightnings, Aes Sedai. I will dance with them.
I don't know why, but I just loved that quote. :pleased-1:

Chapter 29:
-It's nice to see that not all Whitecloaks are bad. Bornhald can really be quite reasonable (within his dogma) and it was good to see the normal human reactions they had to the Questioners' tactics in Almoth Plain, especially that they even killed children for being darkfriends. :mad
What Darkfriends? I have seen nothing in any village he has ordered taken except farmers and craftsmen worried that we will burn their livelihoods, and a few old women who tend the sick. [...] And children, Byar? Do children here become Darkfriends?
Although we then did hear a bit of Whitecloak ideology that "The sins of the mother are visited to the fifth generation and the sins of the father to the tenth." :rolleyes
-I can't read about damane and sul'dam without getting angry. :mad I have to imagine that, after the series is over, the knowledge that sul'dam must have a spark of the ability to channel too eventually spreads throughout Seanchan lands and the system eventually topples... but seriously the whole system just really pisses me off. I realize it's supposed to do that but still. :indifferent:
The young women were taken away one by one to be examined, and some were carried aboard the hsips and never seen again.
*shudders*
-We meet Egeanin for the first time. I can't say she's one of my favorite characters, but she's certainly interesting and it's nice to get a recurring character who's a 'normal' Seanchan (i.e. not Tuon). She dreams of becoming of the Blood after the return... Sorry, Egeanin, things really aren't going to go according to plan. :\

Chapter 30:
-For all Rand's talk about hating the coats Moiraine got him and how he'll buy a new coat the first chance he gets... he never actually does. He's had plenty of opportunity in Cairhien to buy a new normal coat. (even if he thinks it'd be weird for him to buy a coat for himself since everyone thinks he's a lord, surely he could send Hurin to get him one...)
-:facepalm Of course they had to steal the horn right before the others arrived...
Rand felt a shiver run through him. "It's too late," he told them. "You came too late." And he sat down in the street and began to laugh.
Yeah, I'm with you, Rand. :facepalm
 

Wil Cambrae

Loremaster Wil
Gaidin
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
5,978
Location
Chuckville, IL
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

When Rand returned from meeting Thom at the theater, he receives two invitations one from Barthanes Damodred. I believe this is the first time we here the family name. When do we hear the connection between Laman and Moiraine? I know we hear about Laman's Sin before this, and his house losing the kingship, but when is it we find out that Moiraine is of the House?
 

Rhed al'Tere

Aes Sedai
Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
14,069
Location
Durham, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

Wil, according to the library, it's not explicit in the text until The Shadow Rising, though she's listed as a Damodred in the glossary of The Dragon Reborn.
 

Megana Vallentin

Aes Sedai
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
5,443
Location
Charlotte, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
megthegray
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

I had forgotten it was Verin and not Moiraine who's in Cairhien with everyone, so I was expecting my re-read of the scene with the two invitations to be more dramatic than it was, knowing that it was actually her family for one of them. :rolleyes

I have more notes from last week, but I've been traveling and haven't had a chance to post them yet.
 

Imzadi Hopewind

Aes Sedai
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
9,052
Location
Oslo, Norway
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

Chapter 18
  • Sheriam is Black...

When I saw her welcoming the girls at the Dock at the White Tower, I was like: Don't believe anything she says!!" :giggle And I think she actually do abuse the girls more than she is really allowed to? Or? Since she can lie and do whatever she wants to do? :cheeseeni:
 

Aduiavas Ida

Aes Sedai
Head of the White Ajah
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
20,154
Age
34
Location
Drøbak, Norway
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

I actually don't think Sheriam is as bad as some other Blacks :look: She does later state that she only joined for the extra benefits, and she is horrified when the Last Battle is actually approaching in her lifetime. That being said, I feel very little pity for her...
 

Megana Vallentin

Aes Sedai
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
5,443
Location
Charlotte, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
megthegray
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

I bet there are a lot of Darkfriends that joined thinking they'd just get something cool out of it and never actually be called upon by a higher-up to do anything.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
16,243
Age
46
Location
Tennessee
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Maibella#7994
Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 31-37

How it is that I've been through countless rereads and yet it took someone in this thread pointing it out for me to notice that Barthanes is from House Damodred?! :facepalm :desk :laugh:
 
Top