2015 Re-Readalong: Eye of the World and The Great Hunt

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Actually, Nynaeve was still knocked out when the Green Man died; she was lying on the roots of the oak tree he grew with his last strength.
 

Toral Delvar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

After reading the conclusion, any ideas about all the people who heard the Dark One was planning to blind the Eye of the World?
Some actual plan Rand and co foiled, or some elaborate ruse to draw them there for some reason?
 

Ealandrelle Melyma

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

I tended to read the "Blind the Eye of the World" as he was going to use it/have Aginor & Balthamel use it for nefarious purposes. Removing the pure saidin, the centre of the eye (the pupil, if you will) that could be effectively "blinding" it. I think it's mentioned at one point that he'll use the Eye to destroy the Great Serpent? Destroy time itself? From the description of how much power is contained in the Eye, who knows what two of the Forsaken may have been able to accomplish.

I will agree that it's pretty vague though.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

After reading the conclusion, any ideas about all the people who heard the Dark One was planning to blind the Eye of the World?
Some actual plan Rand and co foiled, or some elaborate ruse to draw them there for some reason?
Hi Toral Delvar, I'd vote for the latter option. Taking out the three ta'veren (dead, prisoner, turned?) and taking away the Horn would have given the dark side instant victory, no matter how much fighting there still would be necessary to subdue the world. And given Baal'zamon's assumption that Rand can't channel effectively yet, it does not seem completely unrealistic. But then, with Baal'zamon / Ishmael being free, why does he not take care of this plan in person, instead of sending agents he knew to be unreliable?

There may be more to this - could the amount of Saidin in the Eye have been used to open the bore and give the DO full access to the world? We don't know, but this would fit Moiraine's talk about "the world's greatest need".

"Slaying the Great Serpent" can have a double meaning (as we see in the scenarios in AMoL), one being the darkfriend fantasy of stopping the Wheel, linear time, and a DF aristocracy (Carridin, "numbers must be thinned!") on top, forever and ever, immortal. Or of course complete annihilation. Darkfriends are pictured as a kind of pyramid scheme, with the Little Deluded Dupes (as Robert Anthony Wilson called them) throwing themselves away for nothing (remember Gode, the ecstasy and the horror), and those farther up competing fiercely for a prize quite likely none of them will get.

At the DF convention we learn that the Dark side has agents among the high and mighty everywhere - no big surprise, there is a common proverb (not in Siuan's collection) that fish begin to stink at the head. But each of the participants has his or her own agenda, they are not all like Carridin. In Ingtar we meet a deeply troubled but not necessarily evil man.

More interesting perhaps Baal'zamon's / Ishmael's ambivalent commands as to the three boys - "watch them, but kill them only if you must". He is working under some constraints we can only speculate about - some kind of prophecy perhaps.
 
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Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Chapter 51
Is is possible Aginor used a One Power-version of the Cruciatus Curse on Moiraine?
Aginor gets younger and stronger while connected with the Eye source of saidin.

I think the white/light cord was the connection to the Eye. We see Aginor getting younger and stronger while fully connected to it, and then Rand takes some (and then all) of it. When Rand is Skimming (or whatever it's called with the stairs), the cord is smaller, like it's being used up. I think this is why we don't see the light cord in channelers in the future -- it's just that connection with the Eye.

We find out here that Jain Farstrider is the man who gave warning to the Ogier (cf Chapter 42). The man is unnamed previously; Loial talks about the man who came into the stedding very ill and got better almost immediately -- could there have been some sort of Power thing connected to him that got disrupted in the stedding? Possibly. Loial said the man was on his way to Tar Valon to warn about the blinding of the Eye. Did he ever make it? It was twenty years ago, during the Aiel War, possibly with him arriving during the upheaval after Tamra's assassination, and who knows who he would have talked to and if she'd want to keep it quiet (Black Ajah is everywhere).

Chapter 52
Silly Rand, thinking TDO is dead.
Moiraine's coins for the boys were magicked with a go-along spell that Rand countered somehow (Power) -- I wonder how strongly he countered it, and how strongly Mat and Perrin (with their Manetheren blood) countered in comparison.

Chapter 53
I love the thought of an oasis of life and green in the Blight.
Rand: "Oh, I won't ever touch [the Power] again. Not if I have to cut my hand off, first." In the words of Jeffan: lolololol.
Moiraine's special power as a child was eavesdropping, not the persuasion, but it's still possible her words in the Ways held some Power thing that made them more persuasive and believable.



I agree that the blinding of the Eye was meant to draw the folks there in hopes of taking the Dragon Reborn out of commission before he has a chance to do anything.

Re: the world's greatest need. Perhaps we're looking at it too narrowly, thinking too short a time frame. The books take place over the course of three years (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) -- all in all, a very short amount of time. This is the beginning of the Last Battle, in a way, the first skirmish in the war. The Last Battle is less than 5 years away: I'd say this is the time of the world's greatest need. And, in order for the Dragon to be able to fight at the Last Battle, he needed to start training ASAP...which he does, following the skirmish at the Eye (once he gets over the delusion that TDO is dead). Or at least, he starts down the path to acceptance, which is the first step toward training.
 

Imzadi Hopewind

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

We find out here that Jain Farstrider is the man who gave warning to the Ogier (cf Chapter 42). The man is unnamed previously; Loial talks about the man who came into the stedding very ill and got better almost immediately -- could there have been some sort of Power thing connected to him that got disrupted in the stedding? Possibly. Loial said the man was on his way to Tar Valon to warn about the blinding of the Eye. Did he ever make it? It was twenty years ago, during the Aiel War, possibly with him arriving during the upheaval after Tamra's assassination, and who knows who he would have talked to and if she'd want to keep it quiet (Black Ajah is everywhere).

I keep forgetting talking about this. I was "wow, TDO didn't like what Jain Farstrider did" :cheeseeni: So when did he write the books about his travels? Right after the Aiel War? I felt like the books were old, since they talked about like they did read it when they were young?
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

I don't know when his travels were. I always feel like he's from much longer ago than he is (like, 100 years before Rand et al), but he's so recent!

This is definitely something I'll keep a watch for while reading, though. Hopefully we'll get more clues as to when he was traveling and when he wrote.
 

Wil Cambrae

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Maybe one of the Forsaken tossed him in a stasis room :look:
 

Imzadi Hopewind

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

I'm reading the proglue of book 2, and I am very curious who the people Bors notices... Are those people we meet later in the series?

PS: For next serveral books, I'm going to read in norwegian. Why? Because the first books I bought because I was total fed up reading english all the time at the University, so I needed fantasy in norwegian :D That's how I started to read WoT :pleased-1: So I might write quotes bit weird etc because I don't read the book in English now...
 

Megana Vallentin

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

The prologue of book two seems much more ominous to me now that I understand all of the places referenced. Dark friends really are EVERYWHERE. I got that impression the first time through of course, but knowing the geography better it just seems so much worse.

Chapter 1 fascinated me the first time or two through the series, but now I just want to get through it and get on to the action. It feels like a "waiting" chapter, probably also due to going immediately from one book to the next.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

I'm reading the proglue of book 2, and I am very curious who the people Bors notices... Are those people we meet later in the series?

Yes, they are all people we meet later. I thought the Library's summary of this chapter might include footnotes explaining who everyone is but apparently not. :\

The prologue of book two seems much more ominous to me now that I understand all of the places referenced. Dark friends really are EVERYWHERE. I got that impression the first time through of course, but knowing the geography better it just seems so much worse.

Whenever I do a reread, I get the same feelings about this prologue. *shudder*
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

We know the Aes Sedai were Liandrin and Verin, the Shienaran was Ingtar, and the Tairen High Lord was likely Weiramon.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Chapter 52: Silly Rand, thinking TDO is dead.
Not so silly; he knew he had killed a man, the one who had haunted his dreams, and he didn't know any better. Someone should have given him some more teaching - on cosmology and on the nature of channeling as well - and the person in question is of course Moiraine. I am really angry about her manipulative ways (and amused when they fail). Telling him he won't get mad next week or so, or that by concentrating in the way he had learned (and Moiraine knew this) he could sense the source and perhaps touch it, or just about having reactions to channelling like she told Nynaeve would not have hurt her purposes but would have made Rand feel a lot better.

Moiraine's coins for the boys were magicked with a go-along spell that Rand countered somehow (Power) -- I wonder how strongly he countered it, and how strongly Mat and Perrin (with their Manetheren blood) countered in comparison.
Sorry, Mother, I'd say this was just another early bad idea, a piece of fairy tale magic we'd best forget about. And in view of what we later learn about compulsion (a no-no for the good people, and used in at least two varieties - the fast-hit one of Liandrin and Moghedien and the slow-working Verin one - by the BA), it's a rather questionable narrative device (and unlike the finder weave, an unnecessary one).
Countering it? Rand put up some reasonable argument against Moiraine, and against her wishes he discussed the matter with the most important and most trusted person in his life, his father. And that's that; Mat and Perrin seem to just have done as they were told. (Perhaps they had no opportunity to do something else, or they knew they'd be in no end of trouble if they did more then just leave notes - after all, in a way they were eager for adventure.)

Re Farstrider: He reappears in ACoS as Noal, a very old man (no stasis box, sorry) and still has memory problems from the treatment by Ishmael.

DF convention: Ingtar ok, Liandrin highly likely from her later behavior, Verin? Weiramon and Anaiyella also quite likely.
One may wonder when and how this was arranged - physically or in TAR? - but there is no conclusive answer. Problem with Liandrin (and Verin, is she should have been the one) is that they were on a ship and could not just leave for a night.

Ch1: The blow that sends Rand into Lan's training sword may be an early version of what is later called "a bubble of evil".
 
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Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Sorry, Mother, I'd say this was just another early bad idea, a piece of fairy tale magic we'd best forget about. And in view of what we later learn about compulsion (a no-no for the good people, and used in at least two varieties - the fast-hit one of Liandrin and Moghedien and the slow-working Verin one - by the BA), it's a rather questionable narrative device (and unlike the finder weave, an unnecessary one).
Countering it? Rand put up some reasonable argument against Moiraine, and against her wishes he discussed the matter with the most important and most trusted person in his life, his father. And that's that; Mat and Perrin seem to just have done as they were told. (Perhaps they had no opportunity to do something else, or they knew they'd be in no end of trouble if they did more then just leave notes - after all, in a way they were eager for adventure.)

It wasn't a straight up compulsion weave, it was a go-along-to-get-along weave. People under compulsion had no choice; the boys obviously did. Moiraine specifically says Rand countered her weave, so I'm not just making that up. :P


And Noal, yes. I'd forgotten how to spell his name and didn't get around to looking it up.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

@Rhed al'Tere:
I didn't say you made it up, that would be silly. RJ made it up, and I said this was not quite his brightest idea. Let's quote it, Moiraine says:
After I gave you the token, the coin, and made that bonding, you should have been willing to fall in with whatever I wanted, but you resisted, questioned. That told me something, but not enough. Manetheren blood was always stubborn ...
"willing to fall in with whatever I wanted": that sounds heavy to me. That he "resisted, questioned" must mean the argument ensuing after Moiraine healed Tam in Ch. 8, and to me his questions look like the natural reaction to an outlandish proposal, Rand wants to know more and to be convinced by facts and plausible argument. Took some time for Moiraine and Lan, but they won him over.
From what Mat and Perrin say in ch. 10, it may seem they were easier to handle, but this seems to be based both on Moiraine's authority and on the assumption, that Natti Cauthon / Alsbeth Luhan would have prevented them from going.
 
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Toral Delvar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

There are a few weaves that seem similar to compulsion that are allowed- the Blues have a secret one we see in New Spring for examplea
 

Toral Delvar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Also, if any of the attendees can be identified conclusively, I will add them to the spoiler version of the summary
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Well, Ingtar is definitely the Shienarian, he was out "hunting" and Lan commented on him being gone longer than usual...
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

This is a bit of a long post, since it's for the last 2 weeks' worth of reading.

Ashlyn said:
I really kind of wish Jordan hadn't made the words Machin Shin whispers explicit. The description of a wind whispering things so awful it drives people to madness, the way he builds it up, is fantastic and super creepy, but then it sort of falls flat with the whole "blood so sweet" bit, which I don't find scary in the slightest.
I was thinking the same thing while reading that. I loved the idea of half-heard phrases when it's nearby. So you don't hear the actual words until you're inside it and it's driving you mad.

Murun said:
Focus on Perrin Aybara: "There's good hunting along the Blight", ch. 43, and then "Nothing to hunt" (in the Ways), ch. 45. - Seems Jordan was not that certain what to do with the wolfbrother, Perrin will be much more in control later on.
I agree. It seems like Jordan was still trying to figure out how the wolf manifests in Perrin so these were simple initial ways he used to remind us of Perrin's wolfbrotherness since he hasn't had time to really explore it yet.

Rhed said:
Napkins. They brought napkins into the Ways.
:rofl

Rhed said:
I want to hear the story of how Moiraine first met the Green Man.
Yeah! Since I assume it has to be after she left the Tower, which would be in her search for the Dragon. Maybe it's part of how she was able to narrow down her search?

Rhed said:
Loial talks about the man who came into the stedding very ill and got better almost immediately -- could there have been some sort of Power thing connected to him that got disrupted in the stedding? Possibly.
That was my assumption. He was ill because of the taint on Saidin, but in the stedding, he could feel the Power anymore and so couldn't feel the taint.

Rhed said:
I don't know when his travels were. I always feel like he's from much longer ago than he is (like, 100 years before Rand et al), but he's so recent!
Yeah! I was certain his travels were like a century ago which is why it was so incredible that Noal was still around... so I was rather surprised to read in this reread that it was only like 50 years ago. :brown-blink: I'm definitely getting more of a sense of 'when' things occurred this time around.

Moiraine said:
There has not been a Dreamwalker in Tar Valon for nearly a thousand years
:laugh: Just you wait.

Rand said:
Logain. The false Dragon. Light! Thom said they were dangerous names.
I think I'm missing something. What exactly is so dangerous about the names of the false Dragons? :scratch

Mat said:
She was pretty, but she must be nearly as old as Nynaeve.
Really, Mat? :arch I thought Nynaeve was young since there was that whole thing about her being young for a Wisdom.

-When Rand notices the wind in the Ways and says that it feels good to feel wind again, I was like "Nooooo!! Rand, that's not good wind!" D:
-I like the Borderlanders using 'peace' as an expletive. :)
-And it's interesting and kind of nice to be in the Borderlands at least for a bit. The difference in attitude in regards to Aes Sedai is really interesting. Especially coming from Caemlyn, it's kind of refreshing for Moiraine (and Loial) to be welcomed so warmly.

Agelmar said:
We try not to dwell too much on what is gone. The strongest heart will break under that strain.
I like that quote. :)

To stand against the Shadow so long as iron is hard and stone abides. To defend the Malkieri while one drop of blood remains. To avenge what cannot be defended.
:bow

-Lots of throwing up in the Blight. :brown-blink: It reminds me of all the Aes Sedai throwing up later in the search for the Black Ajah.
-I'd forgotten how early the Nynaeve/Lan relationship begins. :brown-blink: For some reason, I'd always thought it was later in the series. I'd somehow forgotten that Nynaeve basically proposes to Lan in the first book. :brown-blink: Poor Nynaeve. :(
-I love how Lan still treats Rand the same even after events at the Eye. :pleased-1:
-Loial says he'll go back to Stedding Shangtai if things get any more dangerous. :p Yeah, Loial, suuure you will. :rolleyes
-The Green Man! D: :cry Though I absolutely loved Loial singing to preserve the space in the Blight. :joy
-We get foreshadowing of Rand's Andoran blood.

And I have a couple questions:
-Why would the Seven Tower seem taller after the Eye? :scratch I can accept the effects on the Blight, but why would the Towers look nicer and taller? :scratch
-What was the voice talking to Rand while he was channeling???? That part really confused me. :scratch I know the whole Chapter was a bit confusing, but I really didn't know who that voice was supposed to be.
-When Lan's talking about power-wrought weapons, he says "One of those swords, a plain soldier's sword, became something more." Is he talking about his own blade?
 
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