So Mat...*SPOILERS*

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Analiese Sinclaer, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Analiese Sinclaer

    Analiese Sinclaer Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar

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    If Mat is no longer Ta'varen, (sp?) does that mean his luck is now normal?
     
  2. Ty al'Djinn

    Ty al'Djinn Mod for Life Gaidin Forum Moderator

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    I'd think so, but I'd have to reread to double check exactly when he got his luck...
     
  3. Aulrick Vendour

    Aulrick Vendour Gaidin

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    I think it was right after he got healed from the dagger, wasn't it? During TDR?
    I can't remember him hearing dice and feeling lucky before that, though it's possible I simply can't remember.
    For sure it only became important when he went after Elayne, Nyneave and Egwene during TDR.
     
  4. Sorcha Al'Verdan

    Sorcha Al'Verdan Aes Sedai

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    I don't necessarily think it is over. I don't think his luck was dependent on being ta'veren, but one of the things picked up along the way that may have been enhanced by being ta'veren. Did Perrin lose the ability to talk to wolves? Rand may have lost the ability to channel, but I think that's for one of two reasons. First, he burnt himself out. Second, when he stepped back into the Pattern he may have consciously changed some of the details of his own thread.

    Mat's luck may not be quite as strong, but I highly doubt it would have been gone.
     
  5. Kiranthus Solaron

    Kiranthus Solaron

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    I think Mat's luck is a part of who he is. Similar to how Perrin is a wolfbrother, being ta'varan did not make him that. His knowledge of past lives may even be part of it as I recall him speaking dead languages well before the dice. Also the heroes of the horn call him Gambler and are familiar with him as if they have met before the current age. Even Hawkwing wishes that at least once he would get the chance to battle him with an army, implying that he is always a hero of the horn when they meet. Even though Mat is not a hero of the horn he is allowed to ride with them.

    My theory is that Rand, Mat and Perrin are always reborn together for the last battle. You always need a Dragon to battle the DO, a wolfbrother to call the last hunt, and a general to lead the last battle (including the heroes of the horn). So it would make sense that Mat's ability to lead and luck is linked to his being ta'veren, but does not stop when the Dragon dies/ascends, just the link between the three ends.
     
  6. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

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    Being ta'veren is all about balance, isn't it? A good incident for a bad incident, etc. Mat's luck hardly seems balanced in that regard, i.e. he doesn't suffer strokes of extreme misfortune as well.
     
  7. Sorcha Al'Verdan

    Sorcha Al'Verdan Aes Sedai

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    that depends on your perspective. mat could probably point to many things that were NOT good luck, even if he didn't necessarily hate the end results.
     
  8. Zimone Zarasri

    Zimone Zarasri

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    Hmm, maybe Mat's luck was balanced by the Dark One being able to touch the world which was highly unlucky for everyone including Mat? So then it might have been part of him being ta'veren. Though I certainly hope that's not the case and that he still has his luck.
     
  9. Ealandrelle Melyma

    Ealandrelle Melyma Aes Sedai

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    I'd say having a wall dropped on him in Ebou Dar was pretty unfortunate ;)
     
  10. Analiese Sinclaer

    Analiese Sinclaer Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar

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    Except that if he had left Ebou Dar that day, he would never have met or married Tuon and so the Seanchan would have stayed out of the Last Battle, because Mat wouldn't have been there to vouch for Rand to her in that garden.
     
  11. Ealandrelle Melyma

    Ealandrelle Melyma Aes Sedai

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    But the actual event of the wall falling on him wasn't fortunate in itself. There was balance there - the pain, worry, and lasting injury which that accident caused was then offset by the good which came of his association with the Seanchan. There are any number of ways he could've been delayed enough to encounter Tuon without having a load of bricks fall on his head.
     
  12. Analiese Sinclaer

    Analiese Sinclaer Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar

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    Oh sorry, I agree. I think my brain died for a moment when I was answering the last time. But I also think that it can just as easily be attributed to either his luck or his Ta'varen nature, if not both. Mat's luck isn't always good, but rather, what is right for him at the time, whether he knows it at that time or not.
     
  13. Ty al'Djinn

    Ty al'Djinn Mod for Life Gaidin Forum Moderator

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    Thanks Kiranthus! I really love that explanation.
     
  14. Ealandrelle Melyma

    Ealandrelle Melyma Aes Sedai

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    You put it much better than I did :D
     
  15. Morvath al'Aeren

    Morvath al'Aeren

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    That is a great theory! I wonder why they don't have past memories of each other? Mat can remember dozens of battles and thousands of battle plans, and Rand can remember weaves ages and ages old that LTT created, but Perrin has no past memories, and none of them talk about having best friends from a past life. Hmm...
     
  16. Lenore Carvoe

    Lenore Carvoe Aes Sedai

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    Mat doesn't remember his own lives nor those of his ancestors. He just received the memories of military capable people who went to the Finns.
     
  17. Morvath al'Aeren

    Morvath al'Aeren

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    Right, he just remembers battles/battle plans. Sorry if that wasn't clear from what I said.
     
  18. Lenore Carvoe

    Lenore Carvoe Aes Sedai

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    That means that of course at least Mat doesn't remember Rand or the Dragon. And I don't think they're always born together, they're not Birgitte and Caidal.
     
  19. Jade Bel' Garter

    Jade Bel' Garter

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    Ok my thoughts on this is he is the Son of Battles just like Perrin is Wolf King, they my stop being ta'verean but they will remain who they are. After last battle Perrin doesn't stop being a wolf brother, I dont feel Mat will stop being the gambler. I think Rand is only one completely changed. They will stop drawing people to them and changing the pattern but not stop being who they are.