S2E3 "What Might Be" -- w/ Book Spoilers

Melearlin Valar

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The Seanchan accent was amazing. I couldn't figure out why it sounded "strange" at first until it hit me that American accents in fantasy (especially villains) aren't really a thing. Alwhin sounded weirdly perky like she was reading an evil corporate training. And having it be a nod to the actual Texan Seanchan accents makes it that much better.
 

Morrighan Daghdera

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The Seanchan accent was amazing.
1000% agree. For Americans when we hear that Southern accent, we typically think of gentility and hospitality. Hearing it is almost comforting. Contrasting the melodious sound with the visual brutality of the Seanchan actions was fantastic.

I would have personally preferred a different example than Uno. I get that he’s not crucial towards plot development and showing the Seanchan as terrifying is necessary. But I think that any extra disposable character would have sufficed. I just like(d) Uno.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Yes, it was perfectly executed with the Seanchan genuinly believing they are the good guys. The Voice sounded like she was welcoming children to a gathering, all the while the damane pointing seemingly at random girls and they are taken with no explanation.
 

Ilverin Matriam

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What the third arch did for Nynaeve is to show her that even in her perfect world with the people she love, they can't ignore what's currently happening in the world around them. There is no escape for them.
While I understand and know what you are saying is true (we see similar thing in Egwene's test in the books), the test is not testing you on how close your dream is to the real world or what would happen if you choose another way for events to turn out. The test is that you need to choose the Tower above all, you need to be steadfast, return through the arch or not at all.
I think that the third arch actually has less emotional impact the way they did it than the way it was in the books. In this version Nynaeve returns only after everything is taken away from her. In the books, she has to make the choice to leave at the peak of her happiness. The fact that she tried to take her daughter with her is touching, but her choice was still easier in the middle of the carnage with Lan dead than it would have been in the original. My husband pointed out that it doesn't make as much of a visual impact for a TV audience, especially non book readers, but it still makes me a little bit sad.
So I must agree with Jocasta here, the third walk out of the arch (after Lan and everyone else has died) was not a test, she didn't choose the Tower over Lan. Obviously the test was earlier in the episode, where the choice was if she would choose a life with Lan away from the Tower. So she failed the test. Like her Aes Sedai test in the books. I think they took this idea from there.
 

Jocasta Braithe

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Yes. And I've seen people say that she chose the Tower over her daughter, but she didn't. She knew that she couldn't defend her daughter from those trollocs and if she stayed they were both going to die. She chose to try to SAVE her daughter. It didn't work, it wasn't possible, but she didn't choose the Tower at all, she went through the arch because it was the only possible way for her and her child to survive.

It was still good TV, but it wasn't as good as the original. And I'm a big fan of the show. 🤷‍♀️
 

Cahalan Sothron

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For Americans when we hear that Southern accent, we typically think of gentility and hospitality. Hearing it is almost comforting. Contrasting the melodious sound with the visual brutality of the Seanchan actions was fantastic.

The Voice sounded like she was welcoming children to a gathering, all the while the damane pointing seemingly at random girls and they are taken with no explanation.
Yeah, Alwhin was giving me heavy Dolores Umbridge vibes. Also, I always assumed the juxtaposition of the "nicest" US accent with the horrors of the Seanchan was a very pointed commentary about some of our... less illustrious moments as a country. I was really glad they kept that and hope we see it with all the Seanchan.
 
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Well, as I remarked elsewhere to a fellow Wot Fan, " i have watched the 3 episodes of S.2 3 times. Although i am not displeased , I have made the decision to completely , mentally Divorce the Amzn PR -series from the books by the mental gymnastics that this is not the True Story ; it's the story as told by a Illianer with PTSD who managed to survive Tarmon Gai'don & spends his/ her time drinking like a distillery while trying to pass themselves off as a de-frocked Gleeman. I think they are doing a good job of it for non-book readers especially.
 

Sorcha Al'Verdan

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Yeah, Alwhin was giving me heavy Dolores Umbridge vibes. Also, I always assumed the juxtaposition of the "nicest" US accent with the horrors of the Seanchan was a very pointed commentary about some of our... less illustrious moments as a country. I was really glad they kept that and hope we see it with all the Seanchan.
I kinda got that same vibe off the announcer for the Collector in Guardians of the Galaxy, and from the guy who announces Thanos before he destroys half a population.
 
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Yeah, Alwhin was giving me heavy Dolores Umbridge vibes. Also, I always assumed the juxtaposition of the "nicest" US accent with the horrors of the Seanchan was a very pointed commentary about some of our... less illustrious moments as a country. I was really glad they kept that and hope we see it with all the Seanchan.
i just re-read the Great Hunt too, and it was interesting to revisit just How much Robert Jordan -through Egwene's voice , is horrified by the evils of 'chattel slavery.
 

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i just re-read the Great Hunt too, and it was interesting to revisit just How much Robert Jordan -through Egwene's voice , is horrified by the evils of 'chattel slavery.
Right? But it isn't just slavery, though it's the most obvious. I think the Seanchan are an enormous exaggeration of our Manifest Destiny tendencies and general imperialism mindset.
 

Ilverin Matriam

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Alright, my notes from this episode:

Things I noticed in the episode:
- "The way back will come but once." They did not say “Be steadfast” and that made me kinda sad. :(
- I like Sheriam, both the actress and how she plays her. I never imagine Sheriam in a certain way, but the way the actress is presenting her sounds plausible to me.
- Why does Egwene know where the chamber with the Arches is, and how does she know how to activate them to try and save Nynaeve?
- So, coming from the last episode after Liandrin told Nynaeve, "If I could take back what was set into motion, I would" in this episode, when Liandrin goes to place Nynaeve’s ring into the fire to be melted, I swear she is having a smirk after the ring melts. I am sorta sure she has something to do with Nynaeve not returning from the arches and she is satisfied with this outcome. Just like in the books some Aes Sedai gave her very difficult tasks at her Aes Sedai test, I think in the series they might have pulled something similar with the Accepted test.
- Egwene confronts Liandrin, again no punishment... Also, why doesn’t the Tower have railing so high up? Don’t they have safety precautions or laws there? :D
- Cairhien has a queen? Who?
- Ishamael tells Perrin “The more wolf you are, the more you are mine.” This is probably so that Perrin is afraid to speak to the wolves and deny their presence and talking to them.
- Liandrin releasing Mat. So first she tells him he is not dangerous, but YEAH, how can one be dangerous inside a cell? He has to go out into the world to be ta’veren, so I think she is taking the executive decision to release him, possibly so that he finds the dagger again. I believe Min, after seeing the vision of Mat stabbing Rand with the dagger, will stop Mat from doing that since they are traveling together. I am guessing they are after Padan Fain and this is how they will end up in Falme with the rest.

Seanchan:
- Accents – I didn’t notice anything super weird. The soldier that pointed at Uno didn’t have an accent. High lady Suroth didn’t have that much of an accent either, or maybe I am wrong? Some people have speculated that they just have an American accent, while the rest of the cast speak more British English and this is the main difference.
- The seanchan music theme is very… them, it matches the outworldness of their costumes
- The voice’s clothes were not so great, she looked like she had an 80s’ coat on :look:
- Sul’dam give damane orders in the Old Tongue??

So, the actress who plays the voice of Suroth, Jessica Boone is married to Uno’s actor, Guy Roberts, and when she said “Bend the knee and swear the oaths.” They look at each other, it was funny. He said "You bloody well like that, wouldn't you" :laugh:
 

Viktara Fen

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- Why does Egwene know where the chamber with the Arches is, and how does she know how to activate them to try and save Nynaeve?
I wondered about this, too. My only guess thus far is that Elayne knew where it was and perhaps conveyed the information, or that someone else told her. It might also be possible that someone deliberately fed her that information to put her in danger or get her into trouble--maybe Liandrin or someone working with her?
 
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Right? But it isn't just slavery, though it's the most obvious. I think the Seanchan are an enormous exaggeration of our Manifest Destiny tendencies and general imperialism mindset.
yes, i think you are quite right on that point.
 
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Cairhien having a queen instead of a king caught me off-guard. It might be nothing, but they might have changed the rules of succession for the Sun Throne in the TV series so Moiraine isn't just a minor noble in House Damodred - she might be higher in the line of succession than she was in the books. (I cannot remember if anything was mentioned about the rules of succession for the Sun Throne, I only remember the details about the Lion Throne of Andor).

They made me sympathise with Liandrin! I am curious to know if she is a member of the Black Ajah in the TV series. It is good to see that they are fleshing out the secondary characters, and the Forsaken (Ishamael) and the Darkfriends are more than two-dimensional power hungry manics than they sometimes appeared to be in the books.

The Seanchan were not quite what I expected, but I felt that their accents were right... I am glad that they put in some effort with the Illianer accent - it might be just me but something doesn't feel right with some of the other characters' accents, lets just say that the Two Rivers folk definitely do not sound like they grew up in the same village.

I'm enjoying the series so far, just as long as I stop myself from over analysing it.:LOL:
 

Melearlin Valar

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Pretty sure they are setting up Liandrin to be black ajah and merging her character with Alviarin. She outright lied when she said "no mention of you at all" when the scene before established that Perrin had talked about Mat specifically.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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There hadn't been any mention of him at all until that point in the letter though. Bending of words...
I'm not sure if they will merge her with Alviarin, but I think they will either drop Galina, or blend her with Liandrin. It all depends on whether the 13 Black Sisters will leave after Falme or not. I think we will need a Black leader in the Tower after Liandrin is outed...
 

Ilverin Matriam

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I watched a review yesterday where this lie was mentioned, so I went to check the words:
"A dozen letters now and not a single mention of Mat Cauthon."

It must be a lie. I don't see how the words can be bent to be "not a single mention of Mat Cauthon.... in the first half of the letters." or something like that :p

I don't know who they will merge Liandrin with, but it is obvious they intended her to be Elaida at some point. But now we know there will be an Elaida, so I dunno... she is so many characters, but Liandrin she is not!
 
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It all depends on whether the 13 Black Sisters will leave after Falme or not. I think we will need a Black leader in the Tower after Liandrin is outed...
Did anyone else notice Joiya Byir? She was one of the initiates in the Tower during a kitchen scene, but I can't remember if she was a novice or an Accepted. I found her by accident because I paused the scene and her name popped up - I double checked it on imdb.com and it was her. I know that she was a full sister (Gray Ajah) in the books when she joined Liandrin. I did not notice any of the other 13 Black Sisters though, maybe there will be a quick Raising or two, but I think that the 13 Sisters won't all be full Aes Sedai. It also leads me to question was Liandrin really trying to recruit Nynaeve to the Red Ajah, or was it really the Black Ajah.

As for a Black leader, Sheriam will still be in the Tower.

I watched a review yesterday where this lie was mentioned, so I went to check the words:
"A dozen letters now and not a single mention of Mat Cauthon."
I did notice this too, but I was in denial about TV Liandrin (I wanted to believe that the letters that Liandrin had access to had already been tampered with by the Blue Ajah/Amyrlin Seat/Team Moiraine), especially after other known Black Sisters (Sheriam and Verin who enjoys the perks of being a Black Ajah member despite her affiliation to the Light) were not so obvious with their machinations.
 

Ilverin Matriam

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Did anyone else notice Joiya Byir? She was one of the initiates in the Tower during a kitchen scene, but I can't remember if she was a novice or an Accepted. I found her by accident because I paused the scene and her name popped up - I double checked it on imdb.com and it was her. I know that she was a full sister (Gray Ajah) in the books when she joined Liandrin. I did not notice any of the other 13 Black Sisters though, maybe there will be a quick Raising or two, but I think that the 13 Sisters won't all be full Aes Sedai.

No, Joiya is in the gardens with Sheriam, Alanna, Liandrin, in the Gray garb with shaved head. Joelle is the actress who plays her. It's funny I always thought Joiya was White, and it turns out it's because there are past editions of the Shadow Rising where it was mentioned she was White, and in later editions it was changed to Gray.

It also leads me to question was Liandrin really trying to recruit Nynaeve to the Red Ajah, or was it really the Black Ajah.

I cannot shake this feeling off also, either recruiting her to the Black by saying "There are more ways to become Aes Sedai." or, as Black, she is trying to kill her in the Arches, so that she is not a threat to the dark.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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I think Liandrin does in the series what Elaida does in the books. Personally handle the ones she think is interesting and train them, like Elaida did with Siuan and Moiraine in New Spring. I think she genuinly wanted Nynaeve to pass the test, but also wanted to be the strongest influence on her, whether to the Black or not.
 
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