Male Channelers post cleansing... what happened to them?

[Ruslan Rynar]

After the cleansing of Saidin, I kept expecting Rand to go to various societies and be like... maybe don't kill men that can channel. Send them for training instead. But it seems that RJ and BS both dropped the ball on this. I would have loved to see a Seanchan or two make their way to the Black Tower or have to deal with their ability to channel. And/or some of the Aeil men to get training or a few Seafolk. It was great that Saidin was cleansed, but then male channels were seemingly forgotten. Yes, there was the Black Tower stuff, but that was all with very well-established characters and was more about tying up loose ends than expanding the story/world.

Also, I would have loved to have some more detail on the strength of male channelers. For example, It would have been great to see a few that were ranked as strongly as Egwene or Nynaeve as a way of gauging strength.

Does anyone have thoughts/opinions on this? Also, if there is a topic on this already, my bad.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I hadn't actually thought of that. Male channelers in Seachan society were killed on sight. If they knew that saidin was cleansed, they'd have a real problem on their hands. Kill innocent people or try to find a way to control them the way they do damane, but they don't have the tools for that.

I would hope that they'd get by in their own societies (Seanchan, Aiel, or otherwise) or that some would make it to the Black Tower over time.

I do wish we would have gotten an answer to that, though.

 

[Viktara Fen]

I suspect we would have potentially gotten a look at that new reality in the 4th Age with sequel books, or at least would have had the chance to quiz RJ about it, had he lived long enough to finish the series. Like Satara, I wish we'd gotten that chance.

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

1. The topic of male channelers is sensitive and steeped in millennia of cultural and historical stigma. Even if saidin is cleansed, old beliefs and prejudices don't disappear overnight. Changing policies in societies as rigid as the Seanchan or Sea Folk would be a long-term endeavor.
2. After the cleansing of saidin, all are busy preparing for the Last Battle. There is simply not enough time for Rand and others to spread the word about the Cleansing more than they did.
3. The Aes Sedai knew. It took them some time to convince them. And they were the most important faction to convince because it was the only faction that could really verify this claim.

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You can find channelers strength ranking in this wiki: https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Strengths_in_the_One_Power_(Values)

 

[Ruslan Rynar]

1. The topic of male channelers is sensitive and steeped in millennia of cultural and historical stigma. Even if saidin is cleansed, old beliefs and prejudices don't disappear overnight. Changing policies in societies as rigid as the Seanchan or Sea Folk would be a long-term endeavor.
2. After the cleansing of saidin, all are busy preparing for the Last Battle. There is simply not enough time for Rand and others to spread the word about the Cleansing more than they did.

The absence of anyone from any society other than the Westlands is conspicuous. By the time Logain is sent to the Seafolk as an ambassador, the power is cleansed, and he could have added a bit about sending male channelers to Rand for training. Rand didn't need to change the societies for this to happen. RJ/BS just needed to create a few minor characters and have them make their way to the Black Tower or someone for training. Again, the complete absence of all other people is odd, IMO.

Also, RJ did not have to wait until Saidin was cleansed to send male channelers from other societies to the Black Tower... one of the recruiting trips could have found someone making their way toward the Black Tower and sped the process along. Despite all the cultural and historical stigma, plenty of men got tested and learned to channel at the Black Tower on their own in the Westlands. The Aiel were all over the continent, and there were tens of thousands of Seanchan in the invasion force yet not a single male channeler to be seen. Again, their complete absence is conspicuous and feels like a bit of a cop-out.

3. The Aes Sedai knew. It took them some time to convince them. And they were the most important faction to convince because it was the only faction that could really verify this claim.

For the societies beyond those kingdoms of the Westlands, the Aes Sedai don't hold much, if any, sway. The Seafolk were able to fool the Aes Sedai into thinking that there were very few channelers in their society and most were weak. The Aiel avoided them, and in the series, it seems the Wiseones make a decision about the Aes Sedai on a case-by-case basis. The Seanchan think that the Aes Sedai deserve to be collared. I just don't see the Aes Sedai as the most important faction to convince when, at the time leading up to the Last Battle, the entire world learned that they were fractured by internal issues. They were certainly important, but not to the other societies.

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You can find channelers strength ranking in this wiki: https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Strengths_in_the_One_Power_(Values)

This link provides no new information. I appreciate that you were trying to help, but it does not answer the inquiry posed about wanting to know more information about male channeler strength levels. The list only contains the Forsaken, one Ash'a'man, and the Dragon, and no one else. I was saying that it would be nice to know where other male channelers fell on tables, such as the one provided.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

If you read the Companion, there are numbers listed on each channeler, describing where they fell on a scale. It wasn't included in the books because there is no in-world way of knowing exactly how strong one person is, or have the chance to be...

 

[Ruslan Rynar]

If you read the Companion, there are numbers listed on each channeler, describing where they fell on a scale. It wasn't included in the books because there is no in-world way of knowing exactly how strong one person is, or have the chance to be...

Again, I'm only talking about the male channelers and stating that I wish we had more detail on their strength levels beyond what is currently known. The Companion does not go into any more detail about the strength of male channelers than what is already known. As for it not being included in the books, there are instances where strength is discussed for male channelers, such as knowing that Androl is quite weak. However, we don't know if that means he's 30 levels down from Rand, which still makes him stronger than a fair number of Aes Sedai, or if it is more like Daigan (the weakest Aes Sedai). I know he marveled at the amount of power that Pevara was about to channel when they linked, and she is 19 levels below Rand.

If we look at this another way, RJ created an entire group that was based on strength in the One Power. Then said that men can channel more of the power than women but that despite being "stronger," they are not necessarily able to produce a better outcome. It seems weird that when RJ said that the male channelers were being forced, he would not have talked about the strength of the channelers around the Dragon. Rand had Lewis Therin in his head, who could have said something like Damer Flinn is as strong or stronger than Asmodean.

My frustration comes from the fact that there were numerous opportunities to delve into male channelers more, but they were ignored/skipped over for most of the series when compared to a number of other groups.

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

I feel like the White Tower would want to form a partnership of some type with the Black Tower. This, I think, is alluded to in discussions between Pervara and Androl, where the former recognizes that the Red Ajah will basically have to reconstitute its purpose.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I feel like the White Tower would want to form a partnership of some type with the Black Tower. This, I think, is alluded to in discussions between Pervara and Androl, where the former recognizes that the Red Ajah will basically have to reconstitute its purpose.

I hope that the Aes Sedai that were with Rand and those who were Bonded by them can be the ones going for this. Fighting side by side in the Last Battle could be a good argument for further partnership, but I also fear that many Aes Sedai are very set in their ways, maybe especially the Reds.
But gradually, a new generation of Aes Sedai will (hopefully) be able to see for themselves that the Asha'man don't go mad and have to accept that the Source has been Cleansed.
As for the more rigid societies like the Seanchan and the Sea Folk, it'll take longer. The Aiel I think will believe Rand's story about it, and maybe start sending their men who can channel to the Black Tower, easpecially considering what they learned happened to those that went into the Blight...
Though I also foresee that the Seanchan society will start having issues with people who can channel in general, when the issue that suø'dam also can channel will come to light. We saw that Tuon tried to hold to the difference, but I doubt most others will accept the difference. I also hope that Mat and Min will help end the traditions around damane...

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

Though I also foresee that the Seanchan society will start having issues with people who can channel in general, when the issue that suø'dam also can channel will come to light. We saw that Tuon tried to hold to the difference, but I doubt most others will accept the difference. I also hope that Mat and Min will help end the traditions around damane...

Tuon had made a lot of progress in Knife of Dreams. In the later books, that was all pulled back and, of course, who knows what Artur Hawkwing said to her after the Last Battle.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I'd also like to point out the deal that the White Tower had set up with the Sea Folk and the Aiel about sending some female channelers from each group to go study with others and share that knowledge.

We can't know for sure, but I would strongly hope that the Black Tower followed suit and started to coordinate with the Aiel, Sea Folk, Seanchan, or anyone else out there in the world who could channel, and that those civilizations would be working on setting up their own ways to teach their young men about the One Power.

In regards to male channelers and their power in relation to other male (and female) channelers, I think the books give enough context clues to piece together, more or less, some of the power differences and dynamics, just based on what they can do and with what level of success.

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

I don't think the White Tower would discourage the Black Tower from teaching men how to Channel, because of the same reason why Aes Sedai wants all women who can Channel to learn. It's dangerous if they don't know how. Additionally, I can see the White Tower trying hard to find ways to control the Black Tower, or even eventually the two Towers merging into one again.

 

[Ruslan Rynar]

I don't think the White Tower would discourage the Black Tower from teaching men how to Channel, because of the same reason why Aes Sedai wants all women who can Channel to learn. It's dangerous if they don't know how. Additionally, I can see the White Tower trying hard to find ways to control the Black Tower, or even eventually the two Towers merging into one again.

I can see them trying, or maybe under the leadership of Cadsuane, they could come to understand that controlling them would be a losing battle. As for merging, that seems rather far-fetched to me. The philosophies of the two organizations seem drastically different, and I believe the Black Tower needs a few decades to a few hundred years to find its footing in the world and figure out what it will be. It wasn't until the end of the series that Rand told the Asha'man that they needed to be people and not merely weapons.