AMoL: Rand v Dark One at Shayol Ghul

[Merena Orithana]

Okay. This has been bothering me since I finished AMoL. Maybe I read it wrong or missed something?

Spoiler

When I was reading through later books in WoT, I had just assumed that there would be at least 13-14 male and 13-14 female channelers supporting Rand at Shayol Ghul, not just 2 (!) .
How could Rand pull off 'defeating' the Dark One with just the assistance of Nyneave and Moiraine? In the World of Wheel of Time book, it says that Lews brought the 100 strongest male channelers at that time with him to the Bore (that weren't Forsaken).
Since Rand has about as much strength in saidin as Lews, was the Dark One just much weaker by this time? Did Rand have an extra edge that his time spent herding sheep gave him?
How in the world was that successful? :arch

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Okay. This has been bothering me since I finished AMoL. Maybe I read it wrong or missed something?

Spoiler

When I was reading through later books in WoT, I had just assumed that there would be at least 13-14 male and 13-14 female channelers supporting Rand at Shayol Ghul, not just 2 (!) .
How could Rand pull off 'defeating' the Dark One with just the assistance of Nyneave and Moiraine? In the World of Wheel of Time book, it says that Lews brought the 100 strongest male channelers at that time with him to the Bore (that weren't Forsaken).
Since Rand has about as much strength in saidin as Lews, was the Dark One just much weaker by this time? Did Rand have an extra edge that his time spent herding sheep gave him?
How in the world was that successful? :arch

Well Remember,

Spoiler

even with 100 Males they couldn't link, So you have Lews Therin with Saidin alone creating a partial seal, and mind you the Original Bore was done with a Single Male and a Single Female, Rand had a Sa'angreal, and was linked in a circle of 4 (If you count Moridin)

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Don't forget Callandor

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Don't forget Callandor

I am assuming that Lews Therin had a Sa'angreal of some manner.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

But they say that Callandor was the most powerful sa'angereal ever created, only matched by the double statues. Lews Therin had neither of those available.

But yes, the key was the ability to link with the women, and using all three Powers to seal the prison again.

 

[Kranerian Vrammar]

It wasn't a matter of pure strength, it was a matter of coming at it with a better plan than the previous time. Saidin alone wouldn't have worked no matter how many channelers they brought. They needed all three powers and tricking Moridin into picking up Callandor was the way to do that.

Also, they did come with a small army to keep anyone else from reaching the bore itself. I imagine that in the age of legends, most of the 100 companions were similarly on distraction / fighting duty rather than doing the actual sealing. I'd guess that it was one channeler per cuendillar anchor, but I have no evidence to back that up.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

But they say that Callandor was the most powerful sa'angereal ever created, only matched by the double statues. Lews Therin had neither of those available.

But yes, the key was the ability to link with the women, and using all three Powers to seal the prison again.

Well the Chodean Kal are the most powerful Sa'angreal Created IIRC, and He may have used Callandor..I just don't think he did because it has flaws.

My Guess on the battle was Lews Therin crafting the 7 seals using Disks as focuses while the companions and whatever Mundane forces existed held off the Forsaken/Whatever Darkspawn were there.

 

[Merena Orithana]

It wasn't a matter of pure strength, it was a matter of coming at it with a better plan than the previous time.

Maybe it also had something to do with Rand's approach to 'sealing' the Bore? I'll have to go back and look, but I thought Rand noted that Lews Therin never interacted with the DO the way Rand did.

My Guess on the battle was Lews Therin crafting the 7 seals using Disks as focuses while the companions and whatever Mundane forces existed held off the Forsaken/Whatever Darkspawn were there.

That's true - Rand did bring along essentially an entire army to hold off Darkspawn/Dreadlords/Forsaken. I agree that probably most of Lews' companions served the same purpose.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I think the flaws was the exact reason he used Callendoor. There is a prophecy "He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one" - It seems most likely that this refers to using saidin, saidar and the True Power to fix the bore. LTT didn't have access to either saidar or the True Power

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I think the flaws was the exact reason he used Callendoor. There is a prophecy "He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one" - It seems most likely that this refers to using saidin, saidar and the True Power to fix the bore. LTT didn't have access to either saidar or the True Power

That sounds about right to me as well

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

I was referring to Lews Therin using Callendoor not Rand.

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I know you were, Callandor wasn't made until the start of the breaking.
I would however love to know which of the Dread Lords turned against the shadow in order to help make it. I see no other way that it would have been able to augment all 3 powers

 

[Toral Delvar]

I have wondered that - was its's ability to be a sa'angreal for all three intentional, or related to the flaw?

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I'm not sure how it could have bee related to the flaw considering that only those who served the Dark One had access to the true power at that time.

 

[Merena Orithana]

I thought Callandor was only a sa'angreal for saidin and that you were just able to channel saidar or TP if you are in a circle or had access to it?

 

[Toral Delvar]

I’ll have to check. I’m pretty sure it’s explicitly stated as a True Power sa’angreal, but not so sure about saidar

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

I know you were, Callandor wasn't made until the start of the breaking.
I would however love to know which of the Dread Lords turned against the shadow in order to help make it. I see no other way that it would have been able to augment all 3 powers

Given that it is intended as a trap, I would presume one of the Aes Sedai present at the meeting that is seen in the Bloodline History was secretly a Dark Friend, and Moridin directly states it is a Sa'angreal for the True Power when he picks it up and makes it glow red, At this point I think it is safe to presume it is a Sa'angreal for all 3 powers.

 

[Merena Orithana]

Moridin directly states it is a Sa'angreal for the True Power when he picks it up and makes it glow red, At this point I think it is safe to presume it is a Sa'angreal for all 3 powers.

Wow. So super OP.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Wow. So super OP.

I mean it is one of the strongest Sa'angreal's created and was put in Tear for a reason.