The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Merena Orithana]

Thanks Toral Gaidin.
:joy
That is awesome we have all these hidden tidbits in our library... @Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum - an idea for a TVT article?

 

[Toral Delvar]

These weren't the most active of chapters - often very little happened
Chapter 7
Very little happens in this chapter
Moiraine easily manipulated Perrin, though he tries to struggle against it
Chapter 8
What is the faint vile smell?
We see Ta’veren effects – the whole town got married, and several Whitecloaks quit. We are told that ta’veren just twists chance, but really, these events are so unlikely otherwise as to be effectively impossible.
Simion doesn’t believe in Ogier or Trollocs
Lan considers killing Simion to keep him silent, and Moiraine says it might be necessary at some point
The Whitecloaks have been spreading Perrin’s image
Chapter 9
We see Hopper, in Tel’aran’rhiod
Perrin sees a man die – was this a nightmare or some strange punishment?
Perrin tries to make his surroundings change, but is unable
He also sees Lanfear, who is surprised to see him and casts him away, before Hopper forces him out of the dream entirely
Chapter 10
Egwene has decided she can not marry Rand, but is not entirely reconciled to this
Hurin is aware that news of Falme might have come ahead of them, but the girls don’t think this possible
Nynaeve senses a storm coming
Nynaeve actually tries Healing on Mat. She needs her medicines to make it work – basically she has a block
Egwene channels against the Whitecloaks – her captivity has had a long lasting impact on her
Elayne also joins in – how did she advance so much?
Egwene claims it wasn’t really using the Power as a weapon. If she truly believes that, then even with the oaths, she could probably do what she did, though the Aes Sedai use the time as Novice and Accepted to train them in how to think
Chapter 11
Egwene thinks of TarValon as her home, but she thinks it should be Emond’s Field
We are told men and women of every nation are in the streets – dark of skin and pale and everything in between
Egwene feels a flash of jealousy at the idea of Min looking after Rand
Sheriam believes the girls ran away
Faolain tries to bait Egwene
Chapter 12
Two false Dragons fell when Rand announced himself
Siuan thinks that if the Hall finds out she knew about Rand, she would be stilled. She’s correct, but when it happens, she thinks it unjust


--
Toral Delvar
Tower Archivist
TarValon.Net

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, these are set-up chapters, lots of descriptions and talk, little plot movement. It will unfortunately become a trend.

 

[Merena Orithana]

I finally caught up! ....to last week's chapters.

But how did all the ladies who came to meet with Moiraine in the woods through the winter know where she was?

This bothered me too, I assumed that she told Siuan where she was going so that she could send out messages to her eyes and ears. Maybe the rest was passed on between the blue ajah's eyes and ears themselves?

He was actually right here

I had to re-read that line a couple times - "I think Masema is going crazy." :geek :rofl
And then the conversation moves elsewhere almost immediately.

This is exactly the kind of subtle foreshadowing (RJ magician-ry) that I love about WoT.

I also used to think that the first part of TDR was really boring and long winded for no reason - why would Rand stay up in the mountains all winter? What did he do?
But re-reading, it makes sense somewhat to wait for more things to coalesce instead of just joining the first group of followers that they stumbled across.

 

[Toral Delvar]

If Moiraine had not been so laser foccused on Rand, and had actually paid attention to how Masema was acting, and how he felt the need to go out and proclaim the coming of the Dragon, could they have done anything differently? I think probably not, he wouldn't have done what she said if she said "go be quiet and don't outlaw channeling"

 

[Catt Heckathorne]

I'm on Chapter 37 and the last couple of chapters kept whacking me with "Verin is Black Ajah!" foreshadowing. :shifty

 

[Hal Bahalla]

I'm on Chapter 37 and the last couple of chapters kept whacking me with "Verin is Black Ajah!" foreshadowing. :shifty

I totally agree Cattrin Sedai. On this re-read I keep asking myself how I could have not noticed it the first time around. Of course it's probably because I real like Verin and didn't want to think badly of her.

There were other Aes Sedai that I kept waiting to be revealed as Black, only to find out they weren't Black, just very arrogant and self-centered.

 

[Catt Heckathorne]

One question I've had about Sheriam is, knowing what her allegiance is now, was she behind the two reported Grey Men and the attempt on Egwene?????

 

[Hal Bahalla]

On my re-read this time through, I absolutely assume that to be the case. Her insistence that the girls not talk about it with anyone, including the Amyrlin unless she brings it up first kinda sold me on the idea.

And while I later forgot about it.. I think I found the behavior suspicious my first read through as well.

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

Yeah, what was up with Lanfear sending Perrin away? I thought that was super confusing. And who was the guy all in yellow in his dream?

 

[Merena Orithana]

I also didn't get why Lanfear was interested in Perrin this early on? I mean, her and Rand weren't completely off the table at this point...

So much for being obsessed with Lews Therin.

 

[Toral Delvar]

Very little of what the Forsaken do makes sense to me
We do know that Mat, Rand and Perrrin are linked - the Myrddraal said something about breaking one leg of a tripod and all falls, and Ba'alzamon asked him about giving up the axe. Maybe someone else as well (doesn't Verin ask him about not having given up the axeyet) - I thought there was a reference to a prophecy of giving up the axe for the hammer, but I might have confused the prophecy of the blacksmith carrying the hammer with those statements.
But it does seem they realised that Mat and Perrin were very important much earlier than the other side did - did they have access to other prophecies, or did they just understand them better?

 

[Toral Delvar]

Apparently 13 was last week as well
"Railed galleries of novice quarters rose tier on tier above in a hollow column and fell as many below" - I just like that description, it gives a sense of the scale of the novice quarters. I wonder how they choose which rooms/floors to use. I think there are about 30/40 novices
Why would the Hall vote for stilling them if they knew that Liandrin had tricked them out of the Tower and tried to hand them over to the Seanchan - this does not make any sense to me
Siuan claims that even an infant would not have fallen into Liandrin's trap - I don't see she can say this if she doesn't believe it, but really, were they supposed to say "no" to an Aes Sedai" To suspect one of being Black Ajah?
Why is Elayne also being raised? Egwene makes sense, Elayne not so much
Suian again says that Elayne has the potential to be stronger than any Aes Sedai in a thousand years. The Companion tells us that Cadsuane is stronger.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

I also didn't get why Lanfear was interested in Perrin this early on? I mean, her and Rand weren't completely off the table at this point...

So much for being obsessed with Lews Therin.

Deep down, all the ladies have a thing for Perrin eventually. :halo

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, I think Siuan is being unreasonable here. What would they suspect Liandrin of? And they are conditioned to not ask questions or talk back, as novices, what were they to do, refuse to go with her?

I do wonder what would have happened then though...

 

[Hal Bahalla]

It might be a bit blasphemous to say it here, but throughout my first read of the books I constantly found just about all the Aes Sedai arrogant and hypocritical.

They expect immediate obedience from anyone, and always believe they are the only ones who could possibly be smart enough to solve problems. And it seems like there is no way to satisfy them if you are around them.

This example of the girls treatment by Siuan and Sheriam (and others) is perfect.

How could they be so silly to be taken by Liandrin?!? Don’t you dare question an Ae Sedai here… you are just children! Oh, I can’t trust anyone around me, but please, you three barely trained initiates go and solve this problem for me.

And it is kinda sad that Elayne, Egwene and Nynaeve all learn this behavior and way of seeing the world quite well. Lots of examples of the three of them treating others the same way…

And to be fair… there is plenty of similar behavior by lots of other characters as well. The faults in each individual and group is definitely part od what makes the world “real”.

 

[Toral Delvar]

So, I did start the next batch. There wasn't a lot that stood out as really advancing the story or character development/world building, but I liked these chapters
Chapter 14
Suian says “I should be able to trust Leane and Sheriam at least”-
Nynaeve still thinks Moiraine is not to be trusted
Suian is unsure of how many Black Ajah could be left – did she not see the same pattern the girls later do, which is odd as seeing patterns is something she is especially good at.
Suian decides to trust Verin
Chapter 15
Did the grey man really try to kill them?
Nynaeve seizes saidar with no difficulty. Despite her time as damane, Egwene is too flustered to do so
Nynaeve holds the Gray man in air – something she learned from Siuan, even though at the time she hadn’t learned to differentiate the flows
What does Nynaeve think she could make out of the trick Sheriam used to hide the body
Chapter 16
Galad is clearly interested in Egwene
Elayne says Galad has never disobeyed Morgase or broken a rule – is he really a moral agent, or just a rule follower?
Elayne tells Egwene that Gawyn is also interested in her, but won’t say anything because of Galad’s interest – Egwene says that Gawyn should say it to her
Nynaeve is not sure they will Heal Mat – she seems to have a better understanding of Aes Sedai that Egwene or Elayne
Chapter 17
Egwene thinks any of them could destroy Elaida – are they really already stronger than her?
Elaida is sure that Liandrin is Black Ajah
Elaida has realized that Rand is ta’veren
Chapter 18
Mat is Healed by 10 Aes Sedai – Siuan, Verin, Serafelle, Verin, Leane, Anaiya, Sheriam, Brendas and two others – why these? Siuan can barely Heal – even if she was the best to break the link, shouldn’t someone else have Healed him afterwards?
During the Healing, Mat orders soldiers fron an ancient battle
Chapter 19
Is this Mat’s first point of view?
He has a memory of a battle
Apparently, Mat’s father has had interactions with Taren Ferry folk – so at least there is some interaction
Mat no longer really wants to return to Emond’s Field
Chapter 20
Lanfear visits – why?
Mat wishes Rand or Perrin were there as they know how to deal with girls – while all three of the boys think this, Mat probably does it less than the other two
Selene tells Mat he is important – how does she know that?
Who does Selene mean will try to dissuade or kill Mat? Probably Ishamael, but why?
Mat mentions his father, but they only tell him he visited when he suggests it
I find Mat really likeable in this chapter – much more so than the other boys

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, Siuan's actions here bothers me a bit. If she trusts Verin and Leane and Sheriam, why not use them to hunt for the Black Ajah.
(Yes, this would of course be very much unsuccessful, since 2/3 of those happen to be Black, but that is not the point :P )

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

It might be a bit blasphemous to say it here, but throughout my first read of the books I constantly found just about all the Aes Sedai arrogant and hypocritical.

They expect immediate obedience from anyone, and always believe they are the only ones who could possibly be smart enough to solve problems. And it seems like there is no way to satisfy them if you are around them.

This example of the girls treatment by Siuan and Sheriam (and others) is perfect.

How could they be so silly to be taken by Liandrin?!? Don’t you dare question an Ae Sedai here… you are just children! Oh, I can’t trust anyone around me, but please, you three barely trained initiates go and solve this problem for me.

And it is kinda sad that Elayne, Egwene and Nynaeve all learn this behavior and way of seeing the world quite well. Lots of examples of the three of them treating others the same way…

And to be fair… there is plenty of similar behavior by lots of other characters as well. The faults in each individual and group is definitely part od what makes the world “real”.

I agree with you Hal, the Aes Sedai in the books very much have a problem with arrogance. We will see many times throughout the books, most annoyingly when they learned about Tel'aran'hriod, and think they already know everything about it, and after Dumai's Wells when they still, after being defeated, think that no one else can actually keep Aes Sedai as prisoners...

 

[Toral Delvar]

We see that quite often from people in positions of power, they all seem to think they are better than everyone else and the world is supposed to revolve around them. The Aes Sedai are probably the worst though, probably because they have the longest history (3000 years, compared to maybe 1000 for rulers), everyone seems to agree (or at least they think they do, the dubious claim that even Pedron Niall would come if the Amyrlin Seat summoned him), and many of them have personally had 100-200 years of it, compared to nobles who might have had 10-40.
I think the Wise Ones are a little better, but they still expect everyone to (not literally) bow before them