The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - The Shadow Rising)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Reread (Spoilers)' started by Ilverin Matriam, May 2, 2021.

  1. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    We don’t see it, but it kills Herid Fel. Book 6. I think we get a description
    I checked “what was piled non too neatly on the floor”, so he was also ripped apart.
     
  2. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    I somehow doubt it was a gholam, especially not THE gholam we see later. The Soulless are first mentioned in the beginning of the Dragon Reborn and later Egwene and Nynaeve find on in the White Tower. I believe they were meant to be introduced then.

    What I wonder more is why was he killed? Maybe it was because he failed to catch Rand?

    Some notes:
    Chapter 26 - Rand talks to Thom and tells him about the Horn. Thom however doesn't want to come with Rand. This seemed really surprising to me this time, because... well Rand is a strong ta'veren, why wasn't Thom caught in his whirlwind? Or whatever they call Rand's ta'verenness later :look Apparently the Pattern meant for Thom to join him... but maybe not in these surcumstances?
    Chapter 27 - Rand, Loial and Selene hide from Trollocs inside the Illuminators chapter house.
    "He pressed Loial and Selene back against the wall, hoping they looked like just another shadow. “Be still and be silent,” he whispered. “It’s our only hope.” “Sometimes,” Selene said quietly, “if you are very still, no one can see you at all.” She did not sound the least bit worried."
    I wonder if she used a weave to hide them somehow? Rand doesn't know yet that he can sense women channeling, or maybe he cannot sense that yet, so it's possible that she was channeling to hide them?
    Chapter 28 - Ingtar and gang meet Urien. I wonder what other signs the Aiel had to look for over the Dragonwall? If he was just... what... sitting there waiting for signs?
    Another thing made me laugh:
    “Will you slay me now? Bring your lightnings, Aes Sedai. I will dance with them.” Urien says

    "Oh, be still, man. I won’t harm you. Unless you mean to harm me, with your talk of dancing.” :rofl
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Yes, Lanfear definitely did some sort of weave to prevent them from being seen. There is no way they would not have been seen.
     
  4. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    that also reminded of me this: :lol

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Ephrem Elpidius

    Ephrem Elpidius Citizen

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    I am about 50% done with eye of the world re-read... loving it just as much as I loved it 20 years ago. Was so scared I wouldn't. but its just as wonderful as I remember. I suppose there is a reason it became my fav series of all time... :love

    I am having so much fun, I can't stop! Which is good, cause I want to at least get through the first half of the series before the tv series comes out and ruins the images I have in my head...
     
  6. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    First few chapters - there was a lot I had to think abou there
    Chapter 35
    Perrin asks Loial if wolves would enter a stedding. Am I misremembering, or wasn’t the confrontation with the Whitecloaks in book one in an abandoned stedding?
    Rand feels a sense of loss, though he is a bit slow and doesn’t realise why. It seems that this sense of loss develops very quickly – would wilders feel it? He does realise later when he tries to seize saidin, and more when he leaves.
    Loial explains the Longing. How long were they outside? If it was during the Covenant of the Ten Nations, then a couple of hundred years, how did it switch to only around 10? Were there Ogier still in the stedding?
    How many Ogier are in the stedding? It seems like several thousand at least
    Three out of three now – Rand has met a black veiled Aiel
    What is the Pact?
    The three Aiel women take Rand for an Aiel
    We learn that among Ogier, men have no say in who they marry. The boys disagree, but Rand thinks on how Egwene followed Rand from an early age, and after that people treated them as if they were promised, and they note that Mat’s father rarely if ever does anything his mother didn’t want him to do
    Chapter 36
    What does Verin do to sense Trayal is empty – it isn’t a thing of the Power.
    Alar can sense that Rand is ta’veren
    Erith thinks Loial is handsome
    Machin Sin was waiting again. How? It seems even less likely that Padan Fain could have done it, but can it sense Rand from inside the ways and track him? Verin thinks it will be at any Waygate
    Chapter 37
    I found this a really interesting chapter, especially the alternate lives
    Portal stones resist being moved – if they were moved, would the transfer to be to the new location?
    Verin mentions there are believed to be worlds where time passes very differently
    Rand is still obstinately refusing to accept he is the Dragon Reborn
    Events unfold differently in the various worlds Rand lives through
    Egwene replaces Nynaeve, Tam dies after many years and hordes of trollocs overwhelm the world
    How is Egwene so good at Healing? In the main world, she can barely heal
    A world where Egwene dies (probably of channeling sickness). I guess that means they were really young when they got married. Min still sees the same things around Rand. He rises in the Guards and then the Seanchan return – they seem to come back several years later in this world, and the Dark One doesn’t seem to be breaking free
    Maybe dozens of other lives
    What happens to the other people?
    If time is passing differently, can that explain the different events? The first world, the Seanchan arrival seems to be 5-10 years later and Tarmon Gaidon 20-30, in the third world, the Seanchan invasion maybe 20-25 years late
    But if this was the case, the whole society would have been several hundred years in the past
    It also got me thinking of how many Dar Ones there are. Verin later says he is the embodiment of paradox and just one. So, despite Rand failing in some of these worlds, he succeeds in the main one and that is what counts. How do we know this is the world that matters? What if Rand had failed right at the end, but a Rand in another world succeeded, and that was what counted?
    Chapter 38
    Egwene likes looking at Galad. Galad has been asking after her. (there is a line much later, where it is claimed Galad was interested in Nynaeve, but that is inconsistent with everything we see and are told)
    Min thinks Mazrim Taim has been caught
    Liandrin get them to sneak out. I think every word she says is true. I’m also not sure it was unreasonable of them to fall for it.
    I think the plan would have been for the Black Ajah to kill Elayne and Min, but why? Why not kill all, ot at least kidnap the three channellers
    Min can see danger around them, but no details
     
  7. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    :rofl Ridiculous theory....or is it? :shifty
     
  8. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    The word flicker is now horrible for me. Especially after hearing Michael Kramer say it in his beautiful voice in the audiobooks...

    I honestly don't want to think about all the different lives of the Portal Stones, time travel or alternate dimensions like that makes my head hurts. I also wonder, wouldn't this give Rand some idea of what might happen in his "real" future? Like the ter'angreal in Rhuidean that the women go through does?

    I don't fault the girls for following Liandrin. They have been trained to follow orders from Aes Sedai, and the fact that Aes Sedai can be evil have not entered their minds yet. That will change, of course...
     
  9. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum Soul of the Purple Ajah Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    I felt really sorry for Nynaeve during the scene where Liandrin convinced them to come along. *She* knew it was unusual for an Aes Sedai to make this request to novices, *she* knew Liandrin was shady. But she also knew that her behavior toward Aes Sedai would cause the others to dismiss her concerns.
     
  10. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    I don't know. The examples we saw had already diverged from the life as shown in the books, but no reason why other worlds wouldn't diverge later. I don' t think we know how many lives he lived, but it seems to be dozens. I think in Rhuidean, it is probably hundreds, or maybe thousands, so it may be that Rhuidean shows pretty much every possibility, whereas he just got a selection
     
  11. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum Soul of the Purple Ajah Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    I listened to a podcast that characterized the Portal Stone experience for Rand and the others as their own Accepted tests. I thought it was really neat!
     
  12. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    So I thought Rhuidean showed the past/most likely future, whereas the ones Rand saw were just random possibilities?
     
  13. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    Oooh ooh! :want Please share the link Leala Sedai!
     
  14. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum Soul of the Purple Ajah Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    It's the White Tower Podcast. I found them on Apple Podcasts, so I don't really have a link. :lol

    Also, I will definitely be listening to them when we start the Dragon Reborn. I think that's where I left off with them. They read and dissect two chapters a week. I met the hosts at JordanCon in 2019. They're raucous and hilarious.
     
  15. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    ......:look....... Maybe we should do a zoom chat at the end of each book to discuss? :waggle
     
  16. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    The library says all possible futures, but that is not referenced. I think moiraine says something, but nothing useful and we get another character explain how the memory of the futures fade, but occasionally a person will encounter an event where they know one choice will lead to disaster, but I can’t remember who says it or when. Or their exact words
     
  17. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    I was referring to Aviendha's experience moving backwards through the ter'angreal.

    I thought Moiraine learned her future by traveling through the red doorway and asking the Ael/Eelfinn? Or was there a different ter'angreal that she used?

    I wish all these angreal would have names so we could more easily differentiate! :rofl
     
  18. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Moiraine went to Rhuidean and there are three arches there that show the future - Wise Ones also go through this on their first trip, they go through the red columns on the second trip
     
  19. Merena Orithana

    Merena Orithana Purple Ajah Novice

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    Oh - that one! :rofl

    :cheese ...too many ter'angrealz...:novice
     
  20. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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