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Yeah, that's where a lot of this idea is coming from (that other thread) but I think what I'm saying is compatible with either there only being one last battle as far as the DO is concerned *or* him being able to distinguish between the different last battles, but it being timeless in between...

Actually, we have every reason to believe that. We're told that outside of the pattern there's no time. That time only comes from being in contact with the pattern. Therefore, when the DO is sealed away he experiences no time. He only experiences time when he's able to contact the pattern...

NO WHERE, BECAUSE THE DARK ONE DOESN'T GIVE CHOICE. I've tried to say this before but apparently it wasn't clear enough. The Dark One does not GIVE choice. Giving implies intentional action. When the DO is sealed away in his prison, he is not alive in any sense of the word we'd usually...

As one of the impassioned discussors, I agree with Aulrick. Not sensing much anger or hostility here. Just passion and strong opinions. Aulrick: I missed you were asking a specific question. I hope to get you an answer but it probably won't be soon. Maybe we can start a new thread about it.

Ehhh, I kind of see your point. Well, to preface this, I *don't* think the ending was disconnected, even taking Fain's uniqueness into account. BUT. Well, I don't believe it was an offhand comment or anything. Even though it wasn't said explicitly in the books "Fain is unique" I think it was...

Kind of hovering at the edges of this for the time being, but wanted to jump in with this: First, while Fain is unique (and I honestly see no reason to doubt RJ's word on this), Aridhol and its subsequent fall and becoming Shadar Logoth is not (or at least, we have 0 reason to believe it so...

:lol We're nothing if not persistent, Ninya Sedai.

Well, you guys are totally allowed to make new threads for subjects not covered in this one. I think this one was specifically about the ending and Rand's choice. Not that it's bad to post in here. Just, you know, this thread's kind of a monster already. But yes, Brandon is not allowed to...

Man I can't believe you actually read through all that. I mean, we pretty much wrote dissertations there. Mad props. But yes, that particular question has been settled. Though I suppose we could continue to discuss the implications of either actuality. Also, you're the (cosplay) artist...

BRING IT ON! This thread is now about arguing discussing any and all things totally opinion-based and irrelephant to anything whatsoever. (yes I said irrelephant. What are you going to do about it?)

It absolutely is theory! That's why I prefaced the whole thing with "I think you just have to be dissatisfied with this." I know the Fain stuff really is pure opinion at this point. Only mentioned it again cause you did, but yeah, that discussion is going nowhere (even more so than the rest :P)...

Just responding as I read. So here, I feel like there are two different ideas you're mixing up, maybe. First, I 100% agree that the DO being able to touch the pattern ruined balance. You are right in saying that the pattern spits out the dragon to restore balance, and in this case it was the...

Just going to copy/paste this from what I said earlier: So yes, the DO being able to touch the pattern does indeed destroy balance. What's needed for balance is the DO sealed away in his prison. And with the wall/light/heat example you gave, the fact remains that the heat CAN be felt on the...

But Aulrick, if there was no foreshadowing, why do the rest of us see this as a completely sensical and logical ending? But ok, here: Being 13x13'd takes away your ability to choose to do good -- you become an automaton for evil. We've seen balance everywhere. So, if you can turn someone to...

Because he is evil (noun). Without the concept of evil, you can't do evil things. You can't steal, lie, cheat, kill, etc, because the concept doesn't exist. If this isn't something you're willing to accept, we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation, but it's very basic and not unique...

Not sure why I used spoiler tags up there, lol. Whole thread is a giant spoiler. ANYWHO... Well, we've had this particular discussion, but again, don't take sealed off to have the same effect as non-existence. The DO can clearly be felt in some way or another inside the pattern even when he's...

lol. Aulrick and I have an unspoken understanding. We're both head butters when it comes to arguments. RAFO means "read and find out" it's something RJ used to say a lot when people asked him questions he didn't want to answer. 13x13 refers to people being turned to the DO using a circle of 13...

He isn't behind it in the sense that not everyone who murders or steals or does whatever else bad thing is doing so because the DO whispered to him, or because he's a dark friend or some other direct influence by the DO. Well, to respond to the one part in there that isn't opinion, what does it...

OK. So, what I asked was: In the BWB it's implied that human's don't need the DO to make evil choices. Is this true? His response was that the DO isn't behind every evil action or choice, BUT that what Rand saw in the world he created was true. Without the DO there is no choice. He *very...

Aulrick. Confirmation from Brandon that rand's world was correct. No DO means no choice. Will tell you more when I get home. On my phone at the signing.