Why do we have a Hall?

[Deoan Kakarot]

So, I heard that Ty said we have a Hall because there was drama from people switching groups to intentionally cause drama, and I know for a fact that that isn't the case since the Hall predated the Creation of MDD by about 2 years, and our very first group change (@Arisaema Draconis from Blue to Green) by 6 years.

So does anyone that's been here longer than me (2004? I think? It was before 5th Anni) remember the actual reason?

 

[Tree]

Hey Deoan, good to see you.

I can confirm that the Hall exists today to raise members as the progress through the Tower and to my understanding that has always been it's function. As to the exactly thought process at the time it was created I would guess to be fulfilling this mandate but you and I are of the same cohort and our memories align.

 

[Jaryd Kosari]

It has been an ever-loving while since all this went down so I may be misremembering, but!

1. I vaguely recall that when I first joined the site, all Aes Sedai and Gaidin got a say in whether someone was raised, and strong majority "yes" was required to proceed. This worked because the site was small and everyone knew everyone else.

2. As we got bigger, it started getting more difficult to keep raising a surprise for candidates, especially for Aes Sedai and Gaidin, which was a problem because that raising was meant to be entirely unexpected.

3. It also became more likely that a) a candidate wasn't known by everyone, or b) personal differences or drama would be aired in the raising thread and word of this would get back to the candidate causing tension and pain. (My raising thread was still visible when I was given access to the forums as a new Aes Sedai, so this wasn't always a case of someone breaking confidentiality!)

So... the Hall was formed to take over that process, and as far as I know, it hasn't changed since, other than to accommodate aspiration when that became a thing. The leader of a group polls the sworn members of that group on whether a candidate is ready, puts together a package, and the Hall votes. The one major change is that where before there used to be some uncertainty about whether someone would pass the Hall, now it seems fairly well understood that if someone is put up by their group, then they will be raised.

I believe, but cannot say with 100% certainty, that the Hall started taking on more than just Raisings when we needed a focus group for a major change. It might have been the creation of the City? Or MDD. Or allowing people to demote. I genuinely do not recall what the inciting event was, just that it occurred.


Finally...the idea that the Hall was created to stop group switching drama is almost laughable in how incorrect it is. It makes me kinda tired just looking at it, to be honest.

When the Hall was created, guesting and aspiration didnt exist. Once you joined a group's forum as an Accepted or Soldier, you were not allowed to change. I believe ONE Accepted successfully switched from Ajah A to Ajah B when I was an Accepted and it was such a big ordeal that she wasn't raised for an inhuman amount of time after.

As you can imagine, Arisaema's change was scandalous at the time it occurred. How dare she break our sacred rules! (Said with great affection!)

So yeah. Hope that history helps.

 

[Nimeroni Quilana]

Hall of Sitters and Warder Council - Tar Valon Library

library.tarvalon.net

we do have a library which well sometimes for the more in debt stuff is not as easy to find info in, some info like this type of generic info is very easy to find in it, the first hall was back in fall 2001, and the page states very well why the hall is there (yes I spent a lot of time in the library lately lol)

for purpose

"The Hall is a representative body chosen from our Tower Sworn that provides advice to the Board of Directors on membership and philanthropic issues. The Hall and Council (henceforth referred to as ‘the Hall’) serve as the main advisory board for the Administration. Each Ajah and Company chooses two representatives from their group to represent them for six months."

and for history

"The Hall was created mid 2001, shortly after the formation of the Tower. In 2002, it was expanded to include Warder Councillors and its remit changed to include membership issues. It expanded to two members per Ajah/Company in 2004 and in 2005 became responsible for raisings to Aes Sedai or Gaidin, which previously had been the responsibility of Aes Sedai and Gaidin respectively. It took on responsibility for deciding on more philanthropic aspects in 2010, at which time it was removed from the Department of Membership.

In 2023, with the creation of the Community Council, the Hall's responsibilities narrowed to solely determining entry to and advancement within the Tower."

I would assume that up till they also included membership issues and such, and since its been there since shortly after the site was founded, it had staff purposes conected too runing the site, at least that would be my logical jump too for something like a hall having responsibilities that didnt include membership issues, raising of members and so on, you can sort of deduct back by when they got tasks based on history what is left they had responsibility for since other things came later. But since its been there from the start and didnt have membership issues before a year later...its obviously it served some function of runing the day too day of the site sort of in a way probably in a site much smaller back then, with lot less people, and having less need for the huge staff amount and levels there is today - fairly logical and non dramatic I would guess at least

 

[Jaryd Kosari]

Aaaah it was the philanthropic stuff I was remembering as the new responsibility. Thankie!

I was having a Moment because I could swear Sitters existed when I was first a novice but for the life of me couldn't remember what FOR because they sure as hell weren't doing raisings.

What they did was help with serious disciplinary action like banning people, and as a general council when Eleyan needed additionalinsight on site events / changes.

 

[Nimeroni Quilana]

no problem like said I um fairly much lived in that place since I started contemplating joining the tower instead of staying in the cozy corner of resident citizen 😁

 

[Sela Narian]

LOL I also remember seeing my raising thread in Aes Sedai when I got access. Good times.

I can't recall when we switched over from having a thread in Aes Sedai pinned to having the Hall do it. I think 2005 or so? Late 2004?

 

[Tree]

I would like to clarify a couple of things here.

To date, there have been no issues to our knowledge of any members leaving or joining any Membership Groups with malicious intentions. Ever. Additionally the mandate of the Hall of Sitters and Warder Council includes entrance into the Tower and raising's within. The Hall does not determine the affiliations of members, promote or allow gatekeeping, or seek to act as gatekeepers themselves. Members alone decide where they will aspire and Membership Groups decide when they will be raised largely in absence of any outside influence including that of the Department of Membership.

 

[Deoan Kakarot]

Excellent! I *vaguely* recall enough from conversations back when I joined that your memory rings true, Jaryd, but I was definitely not sure enough to stake my name on it.

Nimerona, thanks for providing the library link. Definitely fills in the dates, but sadly they don't seem to document site drama (It might pull some more eyes to it if we did though) so I wanted to be sure I hadn't missed something.

Tree, I appreciate the official clarity here. I'd hate for people to be making decisions based on inaccurate data.

 

[Yelenia Hylraren]

That's the most "in my impressive ignorance" I've seen in a while! Thank you for bringing it up so we can dispel that sort of nonsense.

 

[Calen Velervron]

I’m just glad Mdd continues to hold such a place for some people lol. We have fought for a lot of things like integration and same path bonding. When change is sought, Mdd has usually been there.