Servant Of All System Beta Launch!!!

[Toral Delvar]

Thank you Ebona.

Jeffan if you can't give blood just let your hair grow and donate it....it is such a lovely shade!

:'(
I can't give blood and don't have enough hair to donate

 

[Tree]

Toral, you can just give a kidney or a lung and we’ll call it good.

 

[Toral Delvar]

But even this is open to interpretation. If I go on a mission trip with my church to somewhere to help build...something, I wouldn't see that as trying to "convert" people to my religion. I see it as doing something nice for a community. Others may say that the church has an ulterior motive of conversion. Who's right?

Might depend on if the thing you are building is a church or something else

 

[Neisa Alibrylla]

My school last year embarked on a service project/reporting, and they were very specific with what counted and what did not. Confusion reigned, and kids asked questions all the time that mirrored the questions here. "Does this count? How about this?"

Now, it's a simple statement:

Community and service are things you do to give back to the community, without monetary compensation to you.

Done.

My suggestion.

 

[Keisha al'Benn]

I think Pip actually has somewhat of a legitimate point. If I was to donate part of my body, I wouldn't be doing it because of some internet recognition. I don't volunteer because Tar Valon will give me a gold merit for volunteering. I can understand if TV accepted donations for such and such charity, but this whole idea of recognizing people for something that they should be doing out of the goodness of their hearts doesn't sit well with me. When I see posts asking if donating old-used socks to hobos counts towards a merit, seriously, my heart breaks a little. This site used to be so much grander than what it has become.

I just re-read Pip's statement and I am not sure what point he was making?

Azrael, I often donate and such and do so because I want to, not because I want brownie points or any other kind of points. The beauty of this program is that you don't have to participate and yet it encourages us all to be Servants of All whether or not we wish to report our deeds.

 

[Drake O' Neeus]

The way I read the religious activity part is like this: Activities that would be considered part of a hobby(forgive my lack of a better term) would not count. Volunteering by giving a sermon or something is no different than helping clean up the baseball diamond your team plays on. Serving your own group is not serving all(for lack of a better term) The group of people who are being helped is the important part.

 

[Tree]

I got some feedback tonight that I know I can address right away! For anyone who has been unable to locate the submission form to submit their acts of service for points in the Servant of All Program, the form can be found at the link below.

Submission Form



Phew, that one was easy!

 

[Toral Delvar]

Community and service are things you do to give back to the community, without monetary compensation to you.

You'd still need to define "give back to the community" Is teaching Sunday school giving back? Is getting involved in a politician's election campaign? Is getting involved in a specific issue, such as an SSM campaign? How do you differentiate between giving as an individual and as part of an organisation? What if the organisation is a genuine hate group?

 

[Siusane al'Cuyler]

I honestly think the wording is what is making this a problem. By discussing service through a religious organization as "additional details" of the original statement, it does read that religious organizations "attempt to limit a human being’s freedom and rights." That was probably not the intent, but by talking about hate groups and religious organizations in the same section, there's legitimate grounds for concern.

yes! we do see that. the things in the two paragraphs were loosely combined by whether one gets payment for things; and whether one can count work for certain groups; but having that as the first sentence and the sentence about religious organizations as details does not match what we intended and we will be addressing that. religious organizations are more of their own thing, for other reasons.

I do appreciate how all the comments have been made; we are really all working together to figure out how to best describe things and show respect to our very diverse community members.

 

[Zashara Sho'am]

Thanks, Siusane! That clears everything up.

 

[Leese Sulan]

I think I'll be opting to not contribute in the program. Reporting my volunteering of time would personally make me start keeping a scorecard, and I don't want that to be why I'm helping others. I think the program is well-meaning, but I don't know how successful or representational it will be of our community when I imagine there are likely many others like me who also don't feel like scrutinizing every helpful thing they do in order to report it and contribute to this.

 

[Siusane al'Cuyler]

I understand. I can see several reasons why people may not choose to submit requests for points. I would like to see, in the long run, a place where there can be more conversations about service - what people do, more resources for what people might do, what inspiring things they have heard about - there can perhaps be other ways to focus on service besides just getting points. but anyway, here we are to start. I know that not everyone is fond of the Merits system, and not being able to opt out may be one reason, and at least for this, it is totally voluntary.

and Tree, you have such a way with words. I do hope that we can learn more about each other and be inspired by each other.

As the years have rolled on we’ve grown. I don’t get to know everyone, nobody does. With this growth, we’ve had to evolve and I think that rather than cheapening anything the SOA Program reflects the site and community transforming. We are aiming to recognize members as a means of encouraging more service, not solely as a means to offer bragging rights or Achievements. These are acts of service that are based out of people acting from the goodness of their hearts, yes. You can report them, you can chose not to participate and not report them. There are no rewards to members, elevated membership status included, for participating, it is not required. Its just something we want to do, and can do, to thank our members and highlight their actions. Plus, be recognizing these actions, maybe we can get to know one another more and tighten our community through further shared interests. Its all part of growing as an organization and I for one am excited to see where things are going.

 

[Yelenia Hylraren]

I agree with Ariana, but for me it's more.

I think what bothers me is that the program devalues what I do. If I'm giving a group my time or money - it's because I see inherent value in what they do, and what I can help them accomplish. I don't want to devalue my work with one group because they may have tenants that others don't agree with. And I don't want to be a part of a program that would value-equate teaching Sunday School with KKK(or insert federally recognized hate group) orientation. And by instituting a program with biases such as this, you force an agenda - and while that's honorable on some level - it's playing politics, and I don't feel that the site was meant to do that.

 

[Ibon Caseï]

1) Does this count? (obviously, I think it should, but I'm concerned from what has been said above that it might not - one of the problems with supporting pipe-organs and their music is that it is next to impossible not to hold such events in churches)
2) What category would it fit in?
3) How would you evaluate the time commitment in terms of the point system presented above?

1. Yes. It's a benefit open to all, in support of music and the instruments themself. It is not intended as any kind of missionary work. You aren't trying to convert people to Christianity, you're trying to raise money to restore musical instruments. That you happen to be playing religious music (which a lot of organ music is, I know), does not subtract from the value of what you are doing.
2. My gut instinct says Supporting Your Neighbor. Because it's in your own country, and it doesn't involve food&shelter, animals or the environment. However, if you work as an organ player in you everyday life and do these concerts pro bono, then it would be Leading the Way.
3. Because you said there is so much work going into these concerts beforehand, I'm leaning towards it being a major act of service, giving you 3 points. However, this would have to be discussed by the SoA team. I cannot make any promises of points in this announcement thread.

Edited to add:
Jeffan and others who raised this issue: If you can't donate blood, organs or hair, there are other ways to gain the Giving of Yourself Achivement: You donate money to a related group, like a blood bank or Locks of Love, or you volunteer your time to such a place. For example by being on a stand and handing out flyers to promote organ donation. So there are always ways to serve, even if they aren't always obvious.

 

[Neisa Alibrylla]

Toral, the discussion on what's acceptable is when we start throwing our own judgements around. At my school, anything that *helps* the community will be accepted as community and service.

I also think that someone being a part of a hate group could then, when they put it in their submission, can be told "dude, that's awful. I can't believe you... did that..." and leave it at that.

My point is simply that the more you try to differentiate the help that is offered the community, the more explanation you need, and the more genuinely good acts of service don't get counted because it doesn't fit in any mold OR the more questions and confusion you receive. Just offering to verify the service after it's submitted is enough.

 

[Pip al'Dealys]

Pip does good.

Pip reports his good deed for kuddos on the internet.

Pip is a prat for thinking that a decent thing to do.

"This site used to be so much grander than what it has become.".

Perfectly said. This place has become cheap and people who would know better suddenly see ideas through rose tint glasses because they believe a position here is something of high esteem. Seriously, it's getting rather horrendous and nauseating to watch. Truly it is.

I know though, I've got something to say so I should really take this to e-mail. Or is that bullying? Oh lord, I wish I was adult enough to deal with all this mixture of emotions.

 

[Serenla Tamowith]

Pip, you are under no obligation to do any service, community or otherwise. You are under no obligation to report it for this program. You are also under no obligation to stay at a site that you feel is cheap, horrendous and nauseating.

I'm not encouraging you to leave, just reminding you that membership is voluntary.

 

[Lilli O' Neeus]

hmmm...

We seem to have a difference of opinion here, Pip. I think that trying to find a way to encourage all of our members to do what they can to help others is an admirable idea. How ever we wind up doing this (and this may not necessarily be it), I feel it is a step forward, not a lessening of what we used to be at all. Bashing this attempt just for the sake of bashing it, well, I feel that is wrong.

I don't expect any system to be perfect at the beginning. I expect that it will need tweaking, changing, and maybe even wind up being scrapped in favor of a different idea.

Even then, I wouldn't feel that we have failed when we have tried. And I just can't ever believe that it is a lessening of ourselves or what this site is to try.

 

[Siusane al'Cuyler]

I agree with Ariana, but for me it's more.

I think what bothers me is that the program devalues what I do. If I'm giving a group my time or money - it's because I see inherent value in what they do, and what I can help them accomplish. I don't want to devalue my work with one group because they may have tenants that others don't agree with. And I don't want to be a part of a program that would value-equate teaching Sunday School with KKK(or insert federally recognized hate group) orientation. And by instituting a program with biases such as this, you force an agenda - and while that's honorable on some level - it's playing politics, and I don't feel that the site was meant to do that.

well, I'm not sure how much is poor wording of the original text, or actual disagreements - and we do NOT value-equate teaching sunday school with KKK or whatever. (incidentally, I am a sunday school teacher. or maybe that should be a disclaimer. or whatever.) we certainly ARE attempting to keep the focus on groups and service that would not intentionally refuse service to various groups of people, that may include people who are members of TV.net.

I'm hoping that some of the clarifications we work out explain a little better that work through all different religious organizations is not excluded. even if a particular church or religion has tenets that others disagree with. actually, I imagine that a lot of religions, denominations, churches, etc have something that someone, somewhere disagrees with; the only way around that is to exclude all religious related work, and that is not a good solution, and discriminates against members of the site in other ways. so a church (or whomever) can hold whatever beliefs, but if, to give a crude example, that church (or any non-religious organization - any group!) serves as a temporary freeze night homeless shelter, as mine does on extra cold nights, they don't turn away people at the door for reasons of race/disability/sexual orientation/other religion/etc etc. if they did, while sheltering the homeless is a good thing, that would not be service to all, and I can't see any way that points should be given for that. but if all are welcome, then regardless of what that church thinks about those various conditions, then great, that counts. we may never know about that, of course, but for large national or international organizations, with documented evidence of how they refuse service or try to block others rights, well, I don't think that all service has to be accepted.

and that does apply to organizations other than churches. while these things could happen and we would never know about it, other examples - the youth sports league that doesn't accept people from the wrong side of the tracks. or the job training group that doesn't serve people from a certain country because they don't deserve it. or as happened around here, someone refusing to teach skills to muslims because he disapproved of their religion and thought they were anti-american. or....well, there could be a lot of stuff. I hope at least people will stop and think if they can tell a group is doing something like that.

so I am writing this with a fussy toddler on my lap, and therefore kind of distracted...also I prefer to write then think about it and re-read later to make sure I'm really saying what I wanted to say...but I felt like posting now anyway to make some clarifications sooner rather than later, and I hope that choosing to do this now doesn't come back and bite me....anyway.

edit: well, I realized that you may be more concerned with church related volunteering, as in the Sunday school reference...oops, that would be a whole different post...no time now, sorry...

Pip, feel free to email me, not because I'm bothered by what you're saying, but because I don't actually understand what you are saying. and I still feel fairly new to the site anyway, so perhaps I don't have the same perspective. anyway.

 

[Mellaine Murrai]

I agree with Ariana, but for me it's more.

I think what bothers me is that the program devalues what I do. If I'm giving a group my time or money - it's because I see inherent value in what they do, and what I can help them accomplish. I don't want to devalue my work with one group because they may have tenants that others don't agree with. And I don't want to be a part of a program that would value-equate teaching Sunday School with KKK(or insert federally recognized hate group) orientation. And by instituting a program with biases such as this, you force an agenda - and while that's honorable on some level - it's playing politics, and I don't feel that the site was meant to do that.

Yes. This! Maybe I will change my mind but tooting my own horn on this stuff just seems to be....wrong.