New Stuff Found upon Re-read

[Analiese Sinclaer]

Midian, Lanfear was already sealed away when Callandor was warded in the Stone. You see it in the ancestor memories when Rand goes through the ter'angreal in the Waste. The Aes Sedai are planning to go create the Eye, and they have the Green Man, the Dragon Banner and Callandor in the room when the Aiel man walks into the room. The male Aes Sedai are already going mad and the ground is shaking with the newly started Breaking. She couldn't have been a part of that.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

My point is, while it's POSSIBLE technically (I suppose), it just doesn't seem likely, especially when the whole theory is based soley on the "3 will become 1" thing. It just doesn't really add up for me, is all.
I guess we'll have to RAFO.

 

[Midian Venamar]

Ah, that's true Analiese. I had forgotten about that reference to it. Ooh! I never thought of that before, but that actually supports the theory! The Eye is the key. The things found at the Eye were: the dragon banner, Someshta, the Horn, but most importantly a pool of pure Saidin. But, the things that were there were all those things minus the pool of Saidin, and plus Callandor. It then makes sense that Callandor was used to create that pool of untainted Saidin ... which means that it has a way of fighting/cleansing the Taint ... which is the DO's touch.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

That's not bad, but it has nothing to do with the TP...

 

[Midian Venamar]

Well, if the taint is the DO's touch, and the TP is the essence of the DO ... I feel it's pretty closely related.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

How? Are you suggesting the the TP is NOT comming from the DO and therefor could be cleaned?

 

[Midian Venamar]

No, I'm thinking the TP is coming from the DO ... and not that it could be cleansed, but that it has a power beyond what we can anticipate when it comes to fighting the DO. Hm ... maybe you're right ... it could just be Callandor that's the key.

 

[Morrighan Daghdera]

So, let me get this straight. Are y'all suggesting that Callandor was used to create the pool of untainted saidin (I'm doubtful of this) & could hold the key to defeating the Dark One? I wonder if it would have been powerful enough to cleanse saidin...At this point though, I guess it's really the only weapon he has left, right? He nuked the Choedan Kal, we have no idea about the 2nd most powerful sa'angreal, so Callandor is the best weapon at his disposal right now.

So, I guess I agree that by default it must bear some significance. Am I missing anything? Are you suggesting that the flaw might actually work in the wielder's favor in the battle in some way? That would be cool.

 

[Kitan Tataru]

Or maybe it's not a flaw...maybe once of the people who made it had a Foretelling and made it that way on purpose.

And how might the untainted pool of Saidin in the Eye of the World been made? Moiraine mentioned it was men and women, and that they all died to keep it pure...

And it's very interesting that the Choden Kal and the cleansing weren't in the prophecies. At the end of ToM Moiraine said something like "They were wounded by the Dragon and by the Dragon they will be healed" or something along those lines (I haven't read it in a long time) but that's too vague to apply to the cleansing, I think...

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

We can only hope that it actually WAS part of the prophecies, just a part we haven't heard. There are a lot of such parts.
And yes, I think the "flaw" in Callandor isn't a flaw at all... As I said before, if I had to take a wild guess with no backing, I'd say that Callandor will be used to channel more then the power of the 3 people in the circle. Possibly of every person able to channel out there. Another guess is it will use ALL of the one power, thus bringing an end to the age of magic.

No theory there, just wild guesses.

 

[Analiese Sinclaer]

But Aulrick, if the last battle brings an end to channeling, how will Aviendha's children be able to channel? And also if it brings a complete end to the One Power, then the Wheel of Time will stop, as the One Power is supposed to be what turns the Wheel.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Indeed, and the theory that the last battle will infact make time linear is not mine, but has been flowting around out there for a long time now.
As for Avi's children - My guess is that Min's visions work in the same way. If Rand loses the last battle, then Min's visions about things later then that will be false. But the vision is of things that will happen IF Rand wins.
Avi's vision from the glass pillars is probably the same, since she had started working with the wise ones to try and chagne it. Meaning it's not what WILL happen, but what MIGHT happen IF something else either happens or doesn't.
That said, I see the last battle as a sort of breaking point. The outcome of the battle and how it is fought can change everything.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

I've been thinking about doing a lesson about the prophecies of the dragon, so I started reading and I found this.
Accordingly:

He will heal "wounds of madness and cutting of hope."

Healing wounds of madness COULD refer to the cleansing of Saidin.

 

[Kitan Tataru]

Another guess is it will use ALL of the one power, thus bringing an end to the age of magic.

No theory there, just wild guesses.

I went to a Knife of Dreams signing in San Diego, California, when Robert Jordan was alive. Someone (it may have been Ciaran) asked something along these lines, and RJ replied that the One Power is not accessible to people in all Ages.

That said, after Aviendha's vision, I have no doubt that the One Power will be accessible in the Fourth Age. Also, you can't use up the One Power. Moiraine taught Egwene this in EotW...a channeler cannot use up the One Power any more than a millwheel will use up the water in a river.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Yeah... The people in this world believe all kinds of things, that doesn't make them true. And Aes Sedai HAD been wrong before... Often, as a matter of fact.

What do you guys think about the "all will become one" line. Rather cryptic, I'd say. Can mean the three powers (though I doubt it, since they'd have just said 3 like the other part), or all nations, or all channelers, or all humans, etc., etc.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

We can only hope that it actually WAS part of the prophecies, just a part we haven't heard. There are a lot of such parts.
And yes, I think the "flaw" in Callandor isn't a flaw at all... As I said before, if I had to take a wild guess with no backing, I'd say that Callandor will be used to channel more then the power of the 3 people in the circle. Possibly of every person able to channel out there. Another guess is it will use ALL of the one power, thus bringing an end to the age of magic.

No theory there, just wild guesses.

Wild guesses that flies in the face of all we know about the Powers.

Channeling doesn't use up the One Power. Remember the water wheel analogy?

So unless there's an additional factor like the power being locked away, or destroyed etc, mere channeling all of it shouldn't do what you say.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Does it now?
What if you don't use the water, but go directly to the fountain?
Like we've seen in the DO's prison discussion, these metaphores used in the books are just that - metaphores. They are hardly a acurate description of things. But again, it doesn't really matter to me. It was just a wild guess thingy.

Also welcome back Axis. I've been waiting to hear your take on this "Callandor using the TP" theory... Being the WoT encyclopedia that you are

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

Callandor and the TP eh?


Well it's possible that could be the reason.

One plus for the theory has for it is that it’s a less obvious interpretation of the three becomes one prophecy, and I like ideas that aren't obvious.

One thing that is very interesting to me is the nature of the flaw in the first place.

The point to notice is that it’s not a deliberate alteration, but a true manufacturing flaw.

"Interview: Oct 28th, 2005
KOD Signing Report - Jason Wolfbrother (Paraphrased)
Jason Wolfbrother
Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes.
Jason Wolfbrother
Was it used in the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.
Jason Wolfbrother
Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?
Robert Jordan
The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw. .

Beyond that though, I think the more interesting line of inquiry is what Min has been thinking about.

"Unfortunately, that question just sent her to another worry. "Have you ever wondered why Cailandor is so often called a 'fearful blade' or 'the blade of ruin' in the prophecies?"
"It's such a powerful sa'angreal," he said. "Maybe it's because of the destruction it can cause?"
"Maybe," she said.
"You think it's something else."
"There's a phrase," Min said, "in the Jendai Prophecy. I wish we knew more of them. Anyway, it says 'and the Blade will bind him by twain.''
"Two women," Rand said. "I need to be in a circle with two women to control it."
She grimaced.
"What?" Rand said. "You might as well be out with it, Min. I need to know.
"There's another phrase, from The Karaethon Cycle. Anyway, I think
that Callandor might be flawed beyond that. I think it might . . . Rand, I think it might make you weak, open you to attack, if you use it."
"Perhaps that's how I'll be killed, then."
"You aren't going to be killed," Min said. .

Bind him by twain

Terribly interesting, there’s more going on here than we are seeing in this lacking a buffer business and it’s all hanging on that Jendai line, and that unknown Karaethon line in my opinion and bears further thinking about.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

I think it only makes the idea that the 3 becoming one are the people in the circle more plausible. We've seen in the prophecies several times that tings are repeating themselves in different phrases.

 

[Midian Venamar]

I disagree Aulrick. Based on the way RJ was writing, it feels like it's one of those moments he used a lot early on; One character thinks they know what's going on by jumping to conclusions and is completely wrong (Rand in this instance), and the other is doing research and is either completely right or close on the matter (Min). If he hadn't done it with Elaida and her self-interpreted prophecies, or Gawyn and him hearing news about Rand killing his mom, or any number of things I might tend to agree with you.