New Stuff Found upon Re-read

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Actually, Rand had usually been spot on with this prophecies interpretations. Elaida is ALWAYS wrong, and so is Cadsuane, but Rand usually knew what he was talking about. He started reading the prophecies the moment he knew he was the Dragon Reborn (to Moirain's great displeasure), but he seems to have been right on most accounts thus far.

Also - Min doesn't tell him he's wrong, she's saying "flawed BEYOND that," meaning what he said is true, but not the whole of it.
 
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Right, but (no offense to the womenfolk out there) but she's a woman and Rand's lover. She's not likely going to tell him straight out that he's wrong at this point in the story. She's going to put it nicely so that he'll more likely listen to her. "Maybe" and a grimace is women-talk for "You're a wool-brained fool." And there's really only been one character that's always been right about the things going on in the world (prophecies or not) and that's Thom.
 
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Are you kidding me? We're talking about Min here. If she thought he was wrong, she'd have told him in a heart beat. She always did, and always will. ALWAYS.
 
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I'm with Midian on this.

Something big got brushed aside right there by Rand and his uppity attitude at this point.

I think Mins gonna save his ass on this one with some logical smackdown just in time, hopefully Zen Rand will listen to her this time,



Ten bucks says its to do with Perrin being there the second time too just to link in loose threads as long as people are throwing out wild ideas

:P
 

Morrighan Daghdera

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Long shot wild theory: Maybe the "flaw beyond that" is the binding him by twain (circle of 2 women) and him unable to seize control of the circle/Callandor. Maybe only one of the women can control it at that point...that would certainly leave him weak, open to attack. No offense to us womenfolk. ;)
 
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Well, I can't see how using the TP will make Rand weak...
All of this is getting a little too much for one theory for me.
I'm still gonna have to go with "disagree" on the Callandor and TP theory, and not really convinced about the rest yet. Even if Rand did miss something, we know that the part Min was talking about ISN'T talking about the TP, because now it's just 2 and not 3.
 

Kitan Tataru

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If Rand is in a circle with 2 women and Callandor and can't seize control of the circle, then yeah, he's pretty much helpless...seems he would effectively *become* a human sa'angreal with only a crystal sword to defend himself against attack (unless the woman who has control of the circle defends him with the Power) until control is either passed to him or the circle is broken.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in TDR didn't Rand use Callandor to defend against balefire?
 

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From our Library, "Rand draws Callandor and kills Ba'alzamon by plunging it into his chest. During this fight it apparently protects him from balefire (TDR, Ch. 55) ".

You're right.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in TDR didn't Rand use Callandor to defend against balefire?

Well yes............ and no.

He did so inside TAR.

which makes things wishy washy.

Could simply a a TAR manifestation like Perrin exhibits later on, or yes it could have been down to Callandor.

hard to say, could go either way.

If Rand is in a circle with 2 women and Callandor and can't seize control of the circle, then yeah, he's pretty much helpless...seems he would effectively *become* a human sa'angreal with only a crystal sword to defend himself against attack (unless the woman who has control of the circle defends him with the Power) until control is either passed to him or the circle is broken.


if we take everything at face value as far as we know in order to use Callandor safely within a circle, Rand NEEDS to be a submissive member and a woman must meld the flow. That way he is protected by the buffer inherent in a circle where someone else can't make you draw more than you can handle

If Rand melds the flows, he's pulling directly through callandor and get's no circle protection at all and the lack of the buffer can burn him out.

There's more to this than we are seeing I think.
 
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Two things:
First of all, you're partly correct on Callandor being used to stop balefire, but in the same way Perrin split it when defending Egwene. Rand was in T'A'R when it happened.
Where is this place? he wondered. More important, where is Ba’alzamon? As if to answer him, a blazing shaft like the one Moiraine had made shot out of the shadows among the columns, straight toward his chest. His wrist twisted the sword instinctively; it was instinct as much as anything else that made him loose flows from saidin into Callandor, a flood of the Power that made the sword blaze brighter even than that bar streaking at him. His uncertain balance between existence and destruction wavered. Surely that torrent would consume him. The shaft of light struck the blade of Callandor—and parted on its edge, forking to stream past on either side.
TDR: Chapter 55

Secondly, I got another hint for the "bind in twain"
“You are destroyed!” Rand shouted. Callandor spun in his hands. Its light roiled the darkness, severed the steel-black lines around Ba’alzamon, and Ba’alzamon convulsed. As if there were two of him he seemed to dwindle and grow larger at the same time. “You are undone!” Rand plunged the shining blade into Ba’alzamon’s chest.
TDR: Chapter 55
 
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Well, it has all the parts: Callandor, Ba'alzamon being bound to the DO with those black chords, and being bound back to Saidin by visually being divided into seemingly two versions of himself. I don't know what it could mean, but I feel like there's a definite connection there to the prophecies.

Ooh! Possibility! When being severed from the TP, Ba'alzamon was seemingly split in twain, but maybe the same thing happened when he was initially given access to the TP ... literally "bound in twain." Therefore, maybe it's callandor itself that will actually bind Rand to the DO ... which is also what Min might mean when she says he'll be left open to attack.
 
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I doubt it. Despite what Aes Sedai in the books keep thinking, the prophecies have thus far been rather literal. It has hardly taken any sort of interpretation on the most part. Even things like putting Callandor back at the heart of the stone, which in the prophecies seemed poetic and metaphorical, ended up being VERY literal.
 

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Two things:
First of all, you're partly correct on Callandor being used to stop balefire, but in the same way Perrin split it when defending Egwene. Rand was in T'A'R when it happened.
True, but there's a very significant difference between Perrin defending Egwene and Rand fighting Ba'alzamon: Perrin doesn't channel, so he was using T'A'R techniques to defend and attack (remember how Bair was just as useful in the T'A'R battle even though she can't channel), whereas Rand was using purely channeling and instinct because he doesn't really know anything about T'A'R at that point. Perrin believed the balefire wouldn't hurt him, so it didn't. Rand believed the balefire could destroy him, and Callandor saved him.
 
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That's true. He didn't really understand what balefire was at that point, so he didn't have to worry about the solid effects it would have, but he did think at the last moment that surely it would overwhelm him. And he did something never seen before, or I believe since ... he channeled into the sa'angreal rather than using it as a focus, which made it glow brighter than the bar of balefire. I think it's definitely a gray area still since he did happen to be in T'A'R though.
 
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the thing that really piques my interest, is no one seems to be asking Brandon about that interchange between Min and Rand.

The whole flaw with callandor barely comes up anywhere in the interviews at all, which ALWAYS makes me think we're onto something with this Blade of Ruin business.
 
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You can't really take into consideration Rand's knowledge at that point. He does things without thinking, and sometimes doesn't even understand what he just did. That entire fight in tel'aranrhiod between him and Ishamael was a perfect example. Ishi wasn't trying to kill him with the power. He was trying to alter the world to kill him in tel'aranrhiod. Rand countered each move without really knowing how he did it. He just did.
 
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Axis - indeed interesting. However, I suppose it's because people don't really see it as misteriouse. The flaw is pretty well understood. The Blade of Ruin is more of a RAFO then anything else, since Callandor isn't that much in the prophecies so we have no real way to start making up theories or analyze it.
 

Morrighan Daghdera

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I'm with Axis. It would still be nice if someone tried. The "flaw beyond that" is what I'd most like to understand, as it's what would leave Rand open & vulnerable.
 
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Well we've already seen that, in part, I think.
Remember PoD? While using the sword, Rand was indeed vulerable. So much so that he was pulled off his horse and flattened TWICE before he realized it happened. He was also channeling to places he didn't intend to.
 
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