Knife of Dreams re-readalong: To the End!

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Yeah, but their attitude seems to be "No. :| Do not ask those questions. If it hasn't been done then it can't be done. :| ", rather than "That's a good question. Here's what I know about the subject and ___ Sedai may know something as well. For now, apply yourself to your studies and, when you become Aes Sedai, you can look into that yourself."

    You can caution Novices/Accepted away from experimenting (and punish them harshly if they do), while still encouraging intellectual curiosity. :\
     
  2. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,182
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    They warn them away from experimenting for good reason -- everyone's terrified of being burned out. A novice or Accepted flubbing an experiment could mean not only her stilling, but others around her as well.

    Now that there's a cure for stilling, maybe they'll be more open to experimentation.
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,429
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Cure for stilling, but not for burning out I think :look
     
  4. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 8:
    -“I will call them dragons, and the Seanchan will howl when my dragons bite.” :joy
    -The Illuminators, and only the Illuminators, have matches in this world.
    -Mat has multiple sets of dice rattling in his head at once… Poor guy.
    -The Seanchan really are ridiculously superstitious. They think Mat’s superstitious… but things like crows and ravens reporting to the Dark One are actually real, despite how crazy they may sound.
    -Tuon thinks how she has to ‘secure’ the person who blew the horn. :lol
    -Mat comes to think that the Eelfin must be inside his head at the moment and is understandably pissed.
    -Mat and Tuon get chased down by Tinker dogs and they learn from the Seanchan that the Tinkers are flooding to Seanchan-held lands for safety. Well… except for those poor Tuatha’an women who can channel, though it seems that this group at least doesn’t realize that yet.

    Chapter 9:
    -Mat, in gifting the Razor to Tuon accidentally acknowledged that he’s not her equal. :lol
    -What is a potted finch? :scratch
    -The Aes Sedai attempt to negotiate with Tuon… and Tuon puts a’dam on them :mad That’s hardly proportional…
    -Joline: “I will no longer bother…Precious” :rofl
    -Mat buries the a’dam. Good. :|

    Chapter 10:
    -Some of the Seanchan superstitions are actually related to the Aelfinn/Eelfinn, though the same superstitions also relate to the Dark One (Old Hob’s Hill is supposed to summon the snakes and Old Hob is a word for the Dark One). Mat freaks out about this for a bit.
    -Mat puts the peddler out of his misery rather than letting him suffocate under the road. :(
    -Luca rallies his people and shows what he’s good at it!
    -Thom finally tells Mat about the letter, since Mat finally asked about it.
    -I really like the way that the Snakes & Foxes game relates to the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. :) Very cool wordlbuilding.
    -Noal wants to see the Tower of Ghenjei and is good at talking about himself in third person. :p
    -Mat remember the Tower of Ghenjei. and where it is and tells people about his old memories… and he agrees to go! :joy I remember how impatient I was for that to happen and just wanted every Mat chapter to be him going to rescue to Moiraine the first time I read this.

    Chapter 11:
    -Tuon really wants to see Mat get into a fight.
    -Mat doesn’t believe that Tuon will believe the inn is a hell, though Thom realizes how sheltered Tuon really is.
    -Seanchan Blood use ‘running grooms’ who run at someone’s stirrup to help them when they need it… I feel like a groom on horseback would work just as well.
    -Tuon teases Mat with pink ribbons. Tylin told Tuon everything apparently.
    -Tuon really likes the ale!
    -Mat learns that Seanchan armies want to kill Tuon as an imposter.
    -In the heat of the moment, Mat uses Tuon’s real name. :facepalm
    -Thom saw Selucia and Tuon fighting and knows to ‘forget’ it.
    -And Mat & Co. are finally forced to leave Luca’s circus.

    Chapter 12:
    292-Perrin vaguely wishes he could have let Perrin meet some Tuatha’an to see if that would help.
    -Balwer really starts to admire and respect Perrin and Perrin’s surprised at how easily Cha Faile began taking orders from Balwer.
    -Perrin notices how much Balwer wants to know about Amadicia under Seanchan rule.
    -*shudders* This beetle vomit bubble of evil is the worst. :| :x
    -Even regular Seanchan recognize Perrin’s part in the prophecies (at least, random clerk dude is startled by Perrin’s eyes and hammer)
    -Perrin accidentally manipulates the Lesser Hand into thinking he’s an intimate of Suroth. Yea for ta’veren!
    -More ta’veren work here when he barely avoids dying to an arrow to the chest thanks to Tylee’s perfectly timed question.
     
  5. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 13:
    -Elayne gets super reckless when she’s pregnant… Even with Min’s viewing, she doesn’t seem to realize how devastating it would be if anything were to happen to her! There’s a reason that Andoran queens don’t join in the fighting… I mean, you can still give birth after you’ve lost a leg. :cheese
    -Elayne’s visits with the Sea Folk helped her learn a lot about working with the weather. Super useful!

    Chapter 14:
    -It seems like most damane don’t even know how old they are.
    -Damane aren’t even considered part of their families anymore when they’re collared. :cry Jillari doesn’t feel like she’s entitled to the name she was born with.
    -Elayne wants to send sul’dam back to Seanchan to be collared as damane. :)
    -The Seafolk custom of starting over from scratch whenever your superior dies sounds super frustrating! :|
    -:rofl I love Elayne just screaming as loud as she can after everyone keeps telling her she should change her clothes. :lol

    Chapter 15:
    -Naris, one of Elayne’s maids, is reluctant to go fetch something from the kitchens since she’s worried about the palace rearranging itself.
    -Aviendha has a Talent for figuring out the uses of ter’angreal. It’s impressive that she only just figured this out now with how ter’angreal-obsessed Elayne is. Still, it’s a really cool Talent! :D She has no talent for making ter’angreal, but she can hold one and tell immediately what it does.
    -Elayne is weirdly reckless most of the time because of Min’s viewing, except when it comes to ter’angreal. She’s very aware that she could damage herself while studying ter’angreal, especially with how unreliable her grasp of saidin is lately.
    -So many cool ter’angreal. :) There’s a music box and a figure that’s basically a telephone… she even finds a ter’angreal that sounds like it could be used to grow the Ways?? :eek It’s possible I misinterpreted that, but it’s a stone carving that feels like carved stone that’s used for growing something-not plants-but holes that weren’t really holes… and to make it work, you have to sing the right song, which certainly sounds like the Ogier growing the Ways! :D Very cool! ^^
    -And a ter’angreal eReader! :joy
    -I do feel bad for Elayne that Aviendha had to leave so abruptly. :\

    Chapter 16:
    -
    :rofl
    After Birgitte casually suggesting that she could have Mellar arrested and tortured.

    Chapter 17:
    -Elayne learns about the corridors changing in the palace lately. That’s such a weird manifestation of the Dark One’s touch on the world. :scratch It’s just super confusing as far as changes to the world go.
    -Elayne thinks that “the [Black Tower] was large enough that the Asha’man could haveh been up to anything without her learning of it” and… yup, that’s pretty accurate. Hence why no one learns of what Taim’s doing for so long.
    -Reanne Corly is dead. :( And we realize that Careane wants people to know that the Kin are being killed by saidin, possibly to scare the Kin into fleeing.
    -Arymilla wants to flog the cook because the meat was fatty and going rancid. :blink And then of course fire him because he might poison her for flogging him. Somehow this doesn’t seem like the best solution, Arymilla. :p

    Chapter 18:
    -Rand notices that he and Moridin are aware of each other when their faces appear in each other’s head. He thinks it might have been related to when their balefire touched in Shadar Logoth. Rand also realizes that he probably used the True Power.
    -Logain’s started using a sigil, three golden crowns in a field of blue. Maybe he’s emboldened by Min’s viewing of his future glory?
    -Rand tries to ignore the Black Tower and says that “Oh, come on, Logain. Taim’s done so much for the Black Tower!”. Logain has to try to explain to Rand the actual situation in the Black Tower… and Rand still doesn’t think he has time to deal with it. :facepalm He’ll deal with it eventually. He thinks Tarmon Gai’don may even have to come first!
    -Rand’s question to the Aelfinn of “How can I win and survive Tarmon Gai’don?” was super dangerous! If there wasn’t an answer to that question (i.e. if he was destined to die and there was no way he could survive), then they could’ve exacted a very dangerous price from him. Besides, that question touches pretty heavily on the Dark One, which isn’t usually advised.
     
  6. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,182
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Huh. I wonder if there's a difference in someone else cutting you off vs cutting yourself off? Though I guess "burned out" has a different ring -- if you remove the ability completely, all the neural pathways to make you *able* to channel would be gone, where as stilling/gentling is a severing from the Source.
     
  7. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,429
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yes, I think that is what the Companion said. I don't have it with me atm, so I can't check...
     
  8. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,182
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Ah, I'll have to look it up!
     
  9. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 19:
    -Ogier men have a dowry.
    -Once Loial’s mother and Erith reached an agreement about the marriage, only Erith could stop it, not Loial.
    -The Ogier marriage ceremony involve the man agreeing to ‘obey the guidance’ of his wife.
    -The Ogier are planning to open the Book of Translation to return to their alternate world.
    -The ‘deathgates’ send the Trollocs somewhere and Rand has no idea where. :look That’s awkward. They do die, though, when they go through since Shadowspawn can’t enter gateways and survive. So random people will just find Trolloc and Myrddraal bodies, I guess. :cheese

    Chapter 20:
    -Rand wants Alivia to learn more about the Power besides just how to kill with it, but the Aes Sedai don’t want to teach her. :desk
    -Flies over everything = bubble of evil
    -Min thinks that Moiraine is dead and so is hopeful that some of her other viewings won’t come true, too!
    -Logain is (understandably) super excited about Min’s viewing of him. :giggle
    -Cadsuane refers to Verin as a ‘woman of many masks’. Does she know she’s ‘Black Ajah’?
    -The Ogier really need to be more concerned about closing the Waygates…
    -Elder Haman agrees that he would be a good person to work with the Waygates, since he’s used to Outside.
    -Rand thinks of Elza as fanatical in her devotion and so thinks he doesn’t have to worry about her... uh oh.
    -Nynaeve is annoyingly pissed at Myrelle. I mean, she literally saved Lan’s life!
    -I love Nynaeve’s deception here! She’s very careful in her wording. :) This part is amazing! :joy :joy I love watching her reveal herself to people in the Borderlands.
    -“The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai’don!” :joy :joy

    Chapter 21:
    -We see a steam-powered car in Tear!
    -Rand assumes (correctly) that Lan isn’t there because Nynaeve sent him off.
    -Alivia is very dedicated to helping Rand
    -I always thought that “who draws it out shall follow after” is suuuper vague. Rand just assumes he knows what it means, but is it just me or is that a super vague sentence? It could mean that Narishma’s going to start stalking Rand. :p

    Chapter 22:
    -Harine thinks how long the shipyards will need to replace all the lost boats… but with the Amayar killing themselves, aren’t there no more shipyards?
    -Caire thinks that her daughter, Talaan, was abducted by Aes Sedai.
    -Harine realizes that Rand doesn’t intentionally dishonor people, but also doesn’t really care much for notions of honor.
    -The Aes Sedai feel like the Atha’an Miere were very harsh after Rand left, but apparently the Atha’an Miere also felt like their bargaining with the Aes Sedai didn’t go well either. Neither side is satisfied with the deal.
    -As much as I usually hate the Sea Folk, it is really sad when they learn of all the Amayar killing themselves. :(

    Chapter 23:
    -Romanda thinks of Bode as very similar to Mat in her thirst for adventure.
    -Romanda doesn’t want to accept older women to be Yellows. She also wants to get rid of all the ‘too old’ novices.
    -Romanda remembers something about Cabriana Mecandes that tickles her memory, but can’t remember what. *cough* Halima *cough*
    -She doesn’t think of Theodrin as a full Aes Sedai and thinks she’s smart despite acting like a full Aes Sedai.
    -She thinks that Halima is Delana’s pillow friend.
    -Romanda does have a brief flicker of doubt about accepting older Novices… but she quickly brushes it aside.
    -Sharina is a lifesaver and even helps the Novices deal with the bubbles of evil better than they usually would.
    -The proprietary attitude some Aes Sedai have toward their Warders is a bit creepy, saying things like “He’s mine, but you can give an order to him this once.” without consulting him. :arch
    -I understand Jahar wanting the Aes Sedai to respect the Ashaman and remember Eben Hopwil, but he’s a little weirdly vehement about it. :blink (even given that Eben died defending his Aes Sedai) I understand that he may not trust Aes Sedai, but he seems to expect them to push back against the idea of remember Eben before he’s even told them about him!
    -And they finally figure out Halima is! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  10. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 24:
    -I love watching Egwene in the Tower! :D These are some of my favorite parts of the later books. She starts off early, refusing to curtsy once.
    -Egwene hears about Rand’s kidnapping for the first time.
    -There are crows on Tower grounds, despite the wardings.
    -Alviarin keeps trying to get Egwene to say she wants to escape with her… why? :scratch I don’t remember anything actually coming out of this. :cheese
    -Mattin Stepaneos thinks that the Aes Sedai bringing her forkroot tea are serving her. :giggle
    -Egwene manages to get Beonin to help work for her and acknowledge her as her Amyrlin.
    -Beonin really forgets herself and accidentally tries to lie (saying that she betrayed no one)… which at least proves to Egwene that Beonin’s not Black Ajah.
    -Egwene notices that she hasn’t had her headaches since being captured, nor her crazy nightmares.
    -I love how Egwene gets all the Novices behind her. :) Giving her a cushion and honey in her tea.

    Chapter 25:
    -It apparently took Elaida a long time to realize that the weave for the Keepings needed to be shared to keep food from spoiling.
    -Mat gave Petra and Clarine money to buy their inn. :) ^^
    -And Tuon gives Mat permission to kiss her. While I can’t make myself actually like Tuon, I do cheer for the little milestones in her relationship with Mat. :)

    Chapter 26:
    -Tuon knew Mat had lied when he said he didn’t remember Hawkwing’s face.
    -She doesn’t know the word ta’veren, but knows it means that Mat’s somehow tied to the Pattern.
    -Gaul hopes to find Chiad to make her gai’shain so she might make a marriage wreath for him when she finishes her year and a day. The Maidens make it a competition to find her first. :lol I like Aiel humor.
    -Faile is certain that Galina can’t lie since she’s Aes Sedai, but still thinks she might find some way to wriggle out of her promise, so has her own backup plans. I do like Faile when she’s on her own. :) She’s a very good leader.

    Chapter 27:
    -The Maidens have carved dragons around the haft of Rand’s ‘dragon spear’. Trying to make Rand more badass. :p
    -Rand loses his hand. :(
     
  11. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    11,061
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 28:
    -Faile thinks she hears wolves while in the basement, which makes her think of Perrin, but she doesn’t realize that means he’s coming.
    -I had a similar thought to you, Ida, on why Galina didn’t just use the rod immediately. I didn’t realize until you posted that why. Still, though, she should have just left immediately rather than returning to her tent! I mean, I realize she wanted to bring supplies with her, but she’s Aes Sedai. She would be able to convince people in villages she passed on the way to the Tower to help her.

    Chapter 29:
    -Perrin notices in the swirl of colors that Rand’s lost his hand.
    -It’s Tam! :joy
    -Tam learned that Rand’s the Dragon from Taim when he visited to recruit people for the Black Tower.
    -Some Shaido Wise Ones were able to escape the forkroot (15-20) and Perrin’s plan works perfectly. Good, that storyline’s finally over. :lol

    Chapter 30:
    -Morgase’s ability with Saidin is enough for the forkroot tea to affect her.
    -Aram is still loyal to Faile even after Masema’s corrupted him, thinking he has to save Faile from Perrin.
    -Perrin remembers Elyas telling him that he shouldn’t let Aram keep the sword and come with them and wishes he would have listened. :\
    -:( Rolan :( And poor Lacile. Perrin thinks that she’s just reacting to killing someone for the first time.
    -Perrin notices Faile’s reaction to Rolan’s death, but decides not to press her.
    -And they’ve taken Sevanna prisoner! :) We’re finally done with her!
    -And with Therava and Galina. I know I shouldn’t, but I can’t help but feel bad for Galina a bit here… again, I know I shouldn’t. :p

    Chapter 31:
    -Elayne doesn’t know what Rand’s doing, but notices that something has hurt him very deeply when he lost his hand.
    -Careane sighs audibly while entering the house on the Black Ajah hunt. Was it intentional?
    -Elayne at first thinks that Birgitte’s silly for thinking her expedition to attack the Black Ajah is dangerous. :rolleyes
    -Vandene finally gets revenge for her sister, but dies herself. :cry

    Chapter 32:
    -Birgitte is amazing! :joy Love watching her in action.

    Chapter 33:
    -Elayne doesn’t know about Mat’s luck and is surprised/doesn’t believe her when Birgitte mentions it.

    Chapter 34:
    -Karede uses ‘eyeless’ as an expletive.
    -The crossbow cranks make the Seanchan think that Mat must have at least 20,000 crossbowmen.
    -Karede thinks that Thom is a great captain and is the mastermind behind the attacks. :lol

    Chapter 35:
    -Dyelin is great. :) And really good at handling the kid rulers of the houses sworn to Elayne. I can see why people want her to be queen.
    -And Elayne finally has the throne! :joy It really is very sudden. :blink

    Chapter 36:
    -I like Talmanes’ shock when Karede asks to speak with Thom. :rofl
    -It’s really sad when Joline sees Sheraine, but they know they can’t free her. :( They’re so close to being able to free a captive Aes Sedai…
    -Thom’s amused that Karede thinks he’s the leader. :lol
    -Awwww, I love the reunion between Tuon and Karede. ^^ :giggle
    -And Tuon says the words to finish the marriage ceremony! And now starts calling him by his name finally instead of Toy.
    -Tuon assumes Mat is lying when he tells her about the Aelfinn.
    -Seanchan damane (some of them at least) can tell fortunes. I still keep thinking this might be similar to what Min can do. Mat compares it to Foretelling, but from what we see, that can’t be done on command, while Seanchan damane are apparently regularly asked to tell fortunes on command. (and Tuon’s fortune regarding Mat is certainly accurate!)
    -I do like that Mat and Tuon both agree that they won’t back down on their battle against the other’s side (i.e. Mat still considers the Seanchan his enemy), despite their marriage. Must make for an interesting marriage!
    -Tuon’s a bit surprised to hear that Mat’s in love with her.
    -Tuon finally removes the veil and is fully the Daughter of the Nine Moons again…. Finally. :| Seriously that was getting ridiculous.

    Chapter 37:
    -Mat’s baffled that Tuon apparently thinks that marrying him will serve the Seanchan empire. I’m not sure what she means by that either… unless she just means that she’s hoping to connect herself to this new land by marrying a ‘Lord’ from it.
    -I’d forgotten that Mat didn’t realize that Tuon was heir to the Seanchan throne when she married him!
    -He finally learns that he is now the Prince of the Ravens. :D

    Epilogue:
    -The Seanchan Empress is dead… and Tuon returns, making Suroth da’covale! Again, while I can’t make myself like Tuon, I do find many of her actions very satisfying. :)
    -Taim really likes the colors red and black-possible connection with Moridin?
    -Taim’s had his coat embroidered with dragons, mimicking the tattoos Rand has from Rhuidean.
    -I like the way the Red Ajah evolves here. They not only can bond male channelers as Warders, but those are the only Warders they’re allowed to have. It’s a good way of guiding the future of the Ajah.
    -“Let the lord of chaos rule!”
     
  12. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,070
    One thing about Rand losing his hand, there is one thing that they never really gets covered. He can't play his flute anymore which is quite sad.