Matt's dagger and Rand

[Primus Dedumo]

Okay, I have just finished book two, and one thing that I find odd is Matt's dagger. At one point in book one Morraine (I believe) explains that the dagger is so corrupted that people in the area would be affected by it and that it corrupts other people over time as well. Not only this but the dagger is linked to those it touches. However, during book two nobody wants to touch the dagger due to its corruption. Morraines explanation holds true.

Now here's the crazy part. When nobody wants to pick up the dagger, Rand picks it up and has it on him in the camp when they are sneaking away from Fain. Finally, Rand places the dagger in a box with the horn.
At this point, Rand should have started to get sick like Matt and be linked with the dagger. Instead, all that is explained is that they are all getting pissy at one another and this remains the case till it is stolen again.
After this point o reference is made about Rand also being linked to the dagger. Technically he should have been consumed by it as well. Furthermore, he should have been able to sense the dagger as well, since the taint it creates consumes the holder.

Is this a flaw in the story or did Rand have a sort of resistance to it and had no need of healing like Matt?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I think they explain it with "he didn't hold it for very long" as he put it on his belt away from his body as they sneaked away, and placed it in the case right after.
Rand also knew what it was and was careful with not using it. But it could be that he also has a natural resistance as a channeler.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

So number one thing is time. It is unclear how much time must pass before the corruption begins. I think it's on a scale of days not hours based on how Eye of the World unfolds. The mood change in Mat got remarkably worse the longer he had it. I think the earliest mood change was a few days into traveling on the Spray?

It would be ironic if the venom laced into Saidin combated the mental corruption of the dagger.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I thought for sure that Rand had picked it up with a cloth or something similar. Am I remembering that wrong?

 

[Megana Vallentin]

I thought for sure that Rand had picked it up with a cloth or something similar. Am I remembering that wrong?

I thought I remembered that too, but it has been a while.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I just finished TGH on audiobook yesterday, but I miss things on audio. I'm about to get my book out and look up that scene.

 

[Lealenya Terim]

I just read that part a few days ago and to my (usually flawed) knowledge, he did *not* use a cloth. He put it in his belt, layered away from his body by his clothing. He didn't actually hold it for more than a few seconds when first picking it up and then putting it in the chest.

 

[Lealenya Terim]

Here's the passage you're looking for.
The Great Hunt, Ch. 19 Beneath the Dagger, pg. 292 (paperback)

"It was the chest that held the Horn of Valere. His hand touched something else, on the lid. The dagger, barebladed. In the dark, his eyes widened. Remembering what it had done to Mat, he jerked back, the void shifting with his agitation.
The man sleeping nearby - no more than two paces from the chest; no one else lay so close by spans - groaned in his sleep and thrashed at his blankets. Rand allowed the void to sweep thought and fear away. Murmuring uneasily in his sleep, the man stilled.
Rand let his mind go back to the dagger, not quiet touching it. It had not harmed Mat in the beginning. Not much, at least; not quickly. In one swift motion, he lifted the dagger, stuck it behind his belt, and pulled his hand away, as if it might help to minimize the time it touched his bare skin. Perhaps it would, and Mat would die without the dagger. He could feel it there, almost a weight pulling him down, pressing against him."

Then, on pg. 297

"How could I forget? He left the chest as it was and pulled the dagger from his belt. The bare blade curved like a horn, and the quillons were golden serpents. Set in the hilt, a ruby as big as his thumbnail winked like an evil eye in the moonlight. Ornate as it was, tainted as he knew it was, it felt no different from any other knife.
'Be careful,' Selene said 'Do not cut yourself.'
Rand felt a shiver inside. If simply carrying it was dangerous, he did not want to know what a cut from it would do. 'This is from Shadar Logoth,' he told the others. 'It will twist whoever carries it for long, taint them to the bone the way Shadar Logoth is tainted. Without Aes Sedai Healing, that taint will kill, eventually.'
'So that is what ails Mat,' Loial said softly. ' I never suspected.' Hurin stared at the dagger in Rand's hand and wiped his own hands on the front of his coat. The sniffer did not look happy.
'None of us must handle it any more than is necessary,' Rand went on. 'I will find some way to carry it - '
'It is dangerous.' Selene frowned at the blade as if the snakes were real and poisonous. 'Throw it away. Leave it, or bury it if you wish to keep it from other hands, but be rid of it.'
'Mat needs it,' Rand said firmly.
'It is too dangerous. You said so yourself.'
'He needs it. The Am ... the Aes Sedai said he would die without it to use in Healing him.' They still have a string on him, but this blade will cut it. Until I'm rid of it, and the Horn, they have a string on me, but I'll not dance however much they pull.
He set the dagger in the chest, inside the curl of the Horn - there was just enough room for it - and pulled the lid down. It locked with a sharp snap. 'That should shield us from it.' He hoped it would. Lan said the time to sound most sure was when you were least certain.
'The chest will surely shield us,' Selene said in a tight voice. 'And now I mean to finish what is left of my night's sleep.'"


So it was really only in his hands for a few seconds all together.

 

[Primus Dedumo]

i had the thought that it would have linked him as well since the taint was so strong. Guess we have our answer!

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I think that because in the show they put such an emphasis on (spoilering for those who don't watch the series on Prime) touching it at all, especially in the season 2 finale, it was kind of merging with the books in my head, but with the actual passage posted, I do recall that it's prolonged exposure that creates the bond with the dagger. At least in the books.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

I would also add in here that Rand's ta'veren is greater than anyone elses, including Mat's and Perrin's combined I believe, Rand's mere presence anywhere is a force to be reckoned with regardless of outside influence, I wouldn't be surprised if regardless of explanations above (which I agree with and make sense to me) we could simply chalk this one up to the soft magic system of "ta'veren gave him a bit more leniency on the time in which it would take to corrupt him" to my knowledge ta'veren itself isn't fully explained and allows for flexibility in certain scenarios as a soft magic system. any thoughts on this or am I off track?

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I think you're on the right track. We also have to remember that Mat needed to pick up the dagger, become corrupt enough by it to have huge holes in his memory after being severed from it. The pattern protected Rand from it.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

I think you're on the right track. We also have to remember that Mat needed to pick up the dagger, become corrupt enough by it to have huge holes in his memory after being severed from it. The pattern protected Rand from it.

*claps happily* I deserve a treat.... *looks at you hopefully*

Spoiler: meow

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

*claps happily* I deserve a treat.... *looks at you hopefully*

Spoiler: meow

Spoiler: Merrow