2015 Re-Readalong: Eye of the World and The Great Hunt

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

They seem to be completely shunned from the flashbacks and the way Aram is treated, Elyas's treatment seems to be of a Shunned child who was forgiven..somewhat for his stupid actions in his childhood, at least by his blood family, notice The Seeker's wife is much more antagonistic to Elyas than the Seeker himself is.

That matches with what I was remembering, thanks!

also Hehe "I wish I had Perin's way with women" those lines always make me snicker.

Oh me too! I know it gets old for some people but I enjoy these lines throughout the series.

Hi Logain, you know, it occurs to me that with what we learn Later..the Trollocs and Fades would have had a very bad day. Just imagine the reaction of the people of Camlyn..if the trollocs started attacking..then Logain breaks his sheild..and starts attacking the trollocs, you have 5 Aes Sedai, 1 Male Channeler..a great Captain and several armies in Camlyn at the moment, did the fades know this? It would have been interesting to see just what would have happened.

:eek Oh my gosh yes!!! That would have been fantastic to see!

Chapter 34
First mention of Luc and Tigraine.

It look me several rereads to catch this, and even more to make sense of the tangled relationships.

When Rand mentions Manetheren, Loial says, "Your pain sings in my heart, Rand al'Thor. We could not come in time." This is a piece of history I want! We know Manetheren was betrayed, but where were the Ogier in all that? I can't imagine Ogier betraying anyone they'd promised help to. Were the Ogier coming to help? Gaaaah more info needed.

Yes! I'd love to know what part the Ogier had in this story. It's probably just wishful thinking to hope that we'll get this in the encyclopedia. :\

Nynaeve has something of a Foretelling -- is listening to the wind a kind of Foretelling?

I know Foretelling isn't a common thing, but possibly this is a lesser version of the skill ... it seems all good Wisdoms (aka ones who could Channel) could do it to some degree or another. Or at least, that's what I always assumed.

Elaida is so childish. She's keeping the palace grounds green (and we see her growing roses later in the books). And she asked Elayne to choose one farm to keep green and growing? Ugh. She makes my stomach turn.

And Elaida probably thought she was doing a good thing by making that offer. :facepalm She's clueless.

Do Rand and Gawyn ever get to know each other?

If so, it isn't until extremely late in the series. Gawyn spends the vast majority of his time hating Rand for supposedly killing Morgase. :\ Actually, now that I think about it more thoroughly, I don't think they really get to know each other at all, though they do possibly meet. It's hard to remember the details at this point ....

I love the way Lamgwin treats the cat. He's very careful not to disturb it.Basel Gill could be a dangerous man (look at the way he handled the Whitecloaks).

I love all the characters that come along with Basel Gill later in the series. They are minor characters, true, but they all have personalities and there are things I admire about all of them.

I think that the men were Tower Guard. How would Rand know the difference anyway?

This actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

And Elaida probably thought she was doing a good thing by making that offer. :facepalm She's clueless.

I think she was making a point that she only had enough power to save a single farm, which would only cause riots and more problems due to the unfairness of it. Whichever farm she picked would probably end up regretting the aid.

But something like keeping the palace green could be interpreted as a powerful political statement by some people, making it far more useful.

A hard choice, but something a future queen would need to understand.

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I think she was making a point that she only had enough power to save a single farm, which would only cause riots and more problems due to the unfairness of it. Whichever farm she picked would probably end up regretting the aid.

But something like keeping the palace green could be interpreted as a powerful political statement by some people, making it far more useful.

A hard choice, but something a future queen would need to understand.

I took it more like she was appeasing Elayne's tender heart by offering to help one farm, but pointing out that she could ONLY do one farm. The way I see it, she would expect the chosen farmer to be grateful.

That's one of the reason's I'm enjoying this read-a-long - it's a way to look at particular passages in new ways.

 

[Leira Galene]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I interpreted it exactly like Meg Sedai interpreted it-- that she was pointing out how it wasn't a good idea to help a single farm and that tough decisions were important.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Wow. I totally read Elayne's comment about that as her being disgusted with Elaida. And I never pictured Elaida having that much insight into how to rule, especially given how *she* rules later.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I took it more like she was appeasing Elayne's tender heart by offering to help one farm, but pointing out that she could ONLY do one farm. The way I see it, she would expect the chosen farmer to be grateful.

Wow. I totally read Elayne's comment about that as her being disgusted with Elaida. And I never pictured Elaida having that much insight into how to rule, especially given how *she* rules later.

We're either giving Elaida too much credit or not enough.

I think I expected Elaida to be a jerk from Elayne's tone, so I never imagined her comments as being so kind. But that's also a good point that Elaida was a terrible leader later on.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I interpreted it exactly like Meg Sedai interpreted it-- that she was pointing out how it wasn't a good idea to help a single farm and that tough decisions were important.

The problem is that this decision perpetuates itself.

Imagine if Aes Sedai went out in the world and helped people do things like this, more people might send their daughters to be trained, and be much less willing to listen to the white cloaks if the Aes Sedai had a reputation.

 

[Ealandrelle Melyma]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I've always read Elaida's response as "I could do this for one farm, but you must choose it and then explain to the other hundred farms why they are not getting the same treatment." So yeah, the sort of "sometimes hard decisions must be made" - both in terms of prepping Elayne to be Queen, but also to be Aes Sedai.

Edit - so yeah, I agree with Meg

 

[Wil Cambrae]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

That's a good point. I wonder if they had the color shifting cloaks and that's why he assumed they were Warders?

Could they simply be some Warders of Aes Sedai who didn't go on the search? I do remember hearing stories later on where Aes Sedai would send their Warders on tasks away from them, especially Greens who had more than one.
Also did Moiraine mean that all the Aes Sedai in Caemlyn, but not include the ones in the False Dragon party? Meaning that all the Aes Sedai residing in Caemlyn were Red, but those traveling through weren't?

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

She says, "There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah." (Chapter 42, paperback edition p 637-638)

This is when Loial greets her with a welcome to the stedding.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I've always read Elaida's response as "I could do this for one farm, but you must choose it and then explain to the other hundred farms why they are not getting the same treatment." So yeah, the sort of "sometimes hard decisions must be made" - both in terms of prepping Elayne to be Queen, but also to be Aes Sedai.

Edit - so yeah, I agree with Meg

The funny thing is, there is a way to twist that to being able to do something somewhat useful for the people.

Spoiler

Elayne as the daughter-heir would be choosing a farm could easily ask the farmer of the largest farm in the area if she could use his farm, and "donate" any of the crops beyond what he needed to make it to next spring to the crown in order to help feed the poor. Since you know..he is a good queen's man he would be Honored to serve the Daughter-Heir.

It is a really good thing I am Chaotic Good instead of Lawful Evil.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I bet Elayne of later books would have thought of some clever solution...

Next round of summaries:

Chapter 42:

So Mat is somewhat healed but still has to get to Tar Valon or he will die. So, immediately we know that Mat will not get to Tar Valon for some time, probably until he is right at death's door. This is the kind of foreshadowing that annoys me.

LOVE Rand's casual summary of meeting the queen, Elaida, Elayne, etc.

The whole thing about the Eye of the World was fascinating to me until I realized they were going there instead of Tar Valon. C'mon, the whole friggin book's been about getting to Tar Valon! Now they're NOT going there! Aaaahh so wrong! Even now re-reading it bothers me!

Chapter 43-44:

I found the idea of the Ways totally fascinating and didn't mind reading all the pages of details about their history.

Also, a relief that Moiraine finally knows about the dreams. No more secrets!

Chapter 45:

I found Machin Shin almost as creepy as the ravens scene.

Chapter 46:

I was also fascinated by Lan's history, though I still forget most of those names as soon as I'm done with this book.

Chapter 47:

Fain reminds me of Gollum.

Chapter 48:

I seriously though the Blight was just going to be a desert. Wow how many creepy things can Jordan put in one book??

And the night scene between Nynaeve and Lan was so touching. They were definitely some of my favorite characters in this book, moreso now that I know where their story is going.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Finished the chapter about Machin Shin yesterday... I was like "the wind is no good Rand, wake up"... And he did tell the other ones and then they ran like crazy!

 

[Ashlyn Sindal]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

I really kind of wish Jordan hadn't made the words Machin Shin whispers explicit. The description of a wind whispering things so awful it drives people to madness, the way he builds it up, is fantastic and super creepy, but then it sort of falls flat with the whole "blood so sweet" bit, which I don't find scary in the slightest.

 

[Dralyn Montsier]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Well, to be fair, you might find it creepier if a wind was actually whispering it to you while you were surrounded by darkness that seemed to eat the light that your lanterns were putting off, and you don't know your way out of the place you're in, etc.

 

[Murun]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Well, to be fair, you might find it creepier if a wind was actually whispering it to you while you were surrounded by darkness that seemed to eat the light that your lanterns were putting off, and you don't know your way out of the place you're in, etc.

Totally agree - and compare it to the other instances - TGH, when Rand feels it's coming out for him and burns it with the power, and TSR, where a trolloc is sucked back into the blackness.

But this was a busy week, please allow me to go back a step.

There was the Red Ajah / warders issue, and I still maintain that this is a half-thought imperfection, and it does not make sense to try to rationalize it in some way.
- All Aes Sedai on this task were red Ajah, says Moiraine (who doesn't know in this specific case, but knows how such events are routinely being handled).
- There were warders around (a dozen), Rand identifies them by their coats.
- Such coats are only given to warders (Why? So as not to fall into enemy hands? Or because making them - power aided manufacture (PAM) - is so tiresome / difficult? And who, btw. makes them? Brown Ajah, the R&D dept. of the tower?)
- We read of unbonded young men training to be warders, but we never read of unbonded warders organized as a kind of SWAT team. When Siuan learns that Mazrim Taim has escaped, she tells Leane to send reliable sisters and lots of Tower Guards, and that's that.
Besides, the warder bond being quite an intimate relationship - something like a marriage without sex - it would be highly unlikely that one or more sisters would rent out their warders for any major undertaking. (There is or may be an example in TGS, but only for the relatively harmless task of guarding the BA hunters meeting in the tower, and maybe the sister in question was forced to do so.)

What do we learn from this? While we saw with the duplicated scarves that Harriett wasn't always a failsafe editor, we here see that Robert Jordan - much as he knew about the story outline - still had lots of details to make up. Which is in the nature of the creative process. And anyway, I hold with artist Nam June Paik's famous dictum (well, they even print it on postcards, nowadays) "When too perfect, liebe Gott böse" (good God angry), and who'd want that? Such small things (and there will be more) make the story even more likeable, imho.

And then there was the issue of the warding of the palace gardens and speculations on Elaida's intentions. While I have no opinion on the latter, there was something else that slightly irritated me. We learn later that weaves and wardings can be tied off - once done, they work without any strain on the channeler. Then, why just one more farm? Why not 20 or more? (In the 4th age, with lots of channelers around and ter'angreal making turning from a happenstance talent to something similar to software writing, I foresee quite an interesting competition (and perhaps cooperation) between power-driven and mechanical technology. Think of a ter'angreal climatizing rooms, one simple weave to install it, tied off, then have an agreeable temperature as long as the building stands?)
In any case, Jordan succeeds in presenting Elaida as someone you would not like to have at your dinner party.

Ch 40, well, Rand and Elayne meet: Rand is duly impressed, feels "a twinge of guilt" at finding Elayne beautiful, and then there are other things to put his mind to. Must have meant more to her, but we can only deduce that from what we read in TGH. Good.

"Elayne should choose her husband from there", uuuh.

And Rand and Galad meet, they are strangers to each other, and no hints of them being related. Good. (Knowing them half-brothers, my memory came up with the fuss about the near miss between Tchitcherine and Enzian in Gravity's Rainbow, not the best scene in Pynchon's nevertheless XXL great book.)

Ch 41:

"I knew you were alive", Egwene said ... "I did not", Nynaeve said.

Once more the special relationship between Rand and Egwene, the same constellation repeated at the end of TGH. Must have cost her a lot to deny her love for Rand. And him? "I still remember the pain of it", he says in ToM.

Rand felt a sickness in his stomach at the thought of trollocs in the streets of Caemlyn ... - "Not yet", Moiraine said absently.

So this definitely was on Jordan's to-do list early on.

Focus on Perrin Aybara: "There's good hunting along the Blight", ch. 43, and then "Nothing to hunt" (in the Ways), ch. 45. - Seems Jordan was not that certain what to do with the wolfbrother, Perrin will be much more in control later on.

Ch 49: Nynaeve & Lan - well, even at first reading we know there will be no end of this, ever. However, this is quite well done, Nyn earns our respect (even if we would not like her to be around unless we were seriously sick or wounded). It's a long story how I learned to love Nyn and dislike Eg, culminating in Nyn's testing in ToM, but to bow to her we learn here, if not earlier.

 

[Ashlyn Sindal]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Well, to be fair, you might find it creepier if a wind was actually whispering it to you while you were surrounded by darkness that seemed to eat the light that your lanterns were putting off, and you don't know your way out of the place you're in, etc.

Sure, but I'm talking about the effect it has on me as a reader, not how frightening it might be to any of the characters in the story. It just seems like a weird narrative choice, especially since Jordan clearly understands the phenomenon of vague imagined horror being more frightening than explicit horror, since he has... Juilin, I think? Someone, anyway, comment on it when he asks for weird stuff to "torture" information out of someone later in the series.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, Chapter 42 - Chapter 48

Ashlyn, I did find the wind creepy but I also agree with you. What we imagine can be much worse than what the author can explicitly describe!

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

In the fight with Aginor, Rand used balefire right? So much that The Dark One couldn't get him back?

 

[Leira Galene]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: EoTW, 49-53; TGH Pro & 1

Yeah I am so confused by that chapter. Why can Rand see the "black cord"? Why can he see his own cord of light? How is he travelling automatically-- is Lews Therin taking over? I just have lots of questions, since it's so different from how we see channeling presented later.