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:| Replace "observation" with "knowledge of it," then. I mean, I'm not sure exactly what language to use when discussing this sort of thing. Timelessness is just fundamentally foreign to us, I can only think of it as an abstraction of an abstraction. A lot of the words we use to describe the DO...

I think that because they are both able to touch the pattern at that point, they still have time. Part of this theory is that the DO can and did experience time -- aprox 3000 years of it, because he was able to touch the pattern. During the exchange, both Rand and the DO still are able to...

Hammar, could you please clarify this part?

I did not actually know that RJ was a physicist, but my comment there was only partly tongue in cheek. I was seriously about to pull out the dual nature of light (particle v wave) next, if people didn't like the pie analogy. Not as obviously comparable in some ways, but in other ways pretty much...

Hmm. Let me try (and hope that I'm not mischaracterizing MuKen's argument too badly). There are two perspectives you have to consider separately. First is the DO's. For him, imagine that the wheel is like a pie chart on a piece of paper (mmm... pie. It's lunch time here.). A slice of that...

Like I said in the other thread, I love it (and thanks for doing a full write up). I want to think about it for a while and come back with nit picks (because every great theory deserves to be tested, yes?). For now, just one minor thing: I think it might be more accurate to say there is both...