Will all Channelers be attached to TWT as Egwene wanted?

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Arecias Dezell, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,109
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Egwene was not my favorite character, but like I've seen in many posts already, I was very surprised and saddened by her death. She had so much knowledge that has gone to waste. In addition to training from the White Tower, she trained as a damane with the Seanchan, was apprenticed to the Wise Ones, she was a Dreamwalker, had strong ties with Windfinders and the Kin, also she had some knowledge of the Age of Legends from Moghedian.

    With so many connections and so much knowledge, I thought she would survive and attain her goal of forging connections will all channelers. Is this still a possibility now?
     
  2. Raeviendha al'Toma

    Raeviendha al'Toma Accepted

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    19,678
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Wow what a great thought. I never thought of it that way. All that knowledge dying with her is really sad.
     
  3. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Sweden
    Good thouht. But she didn't have the special connection with the Windfinders though, did she? That was more Elayne's thing, or maybe Nynaeve's?

    Still, she would've made a great "hub" for a network of channelers, given her connections.

    I think a relationship will grow between most groups. Since the Aiel will roam the world, they'll undoubtedly need to interact with Aes Sedai. The Black Tower and The White Tower will probably cooperate. I do, however, see it as more likely that they'll have friendly relations - they won't be tied to Tower and the Amyrlin Seat.
     
  4. Laurelin Allendra

    Laurelin Allendra

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think Egwene's talks made all parties involved see the wisdom in having ties among the groups - at the end of their meeting, I got the feeling that they all saw themselves coming out ahead, which is definitely a plus. Egwene's death and Cadsuane's rise to Amyrlin may hinder that some, since the connection is much less personal without her there. I see them going along with the arrangement they made but not anything more than that.
     
  5. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,109
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I was thinking along the same lines as you with the relationship growing between groups. The Bargain in essence is a connection with the Tower. The Aiel as "peacekeepers" will definitely have ties with the Gray Ajah. The Red Ajah will most likely have strong ties with the Black Tower.

    I still wonder, will Cadsuane make the connection with The Kin as Egwene wanted? Can the damane ever have a connection with The Tower? And then there's the Sharans...
     
  6. Laurelin Allendra

    Laurelin Allendra

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think Elayne will make a big push for the Kin, since she's worked so closely with them. I think the Tower would be able to come up with an agreement with them, though with Cadsuane as Amyrlin it's hard to say what that agreement would be. She's a reasonable woman and she'd at the very least see the benefits of having such a group tied to the Tower.

    The Seanchan and the Sharans are a whole new bag of worms, I have no idea what will happen with either of them. I don't see the Tower letting the Sharans go untouched, though - it would be very un-Aes Sedai-like to just pass them by!
     
  7. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    What will happen to the elements of Sharan society that joined Demandred?
     
  8. Laurelin Allendra

    Laurelin Allendra

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Good question. I don't have my copy of AMoL with me, so forgive me if I mess things up. But if Bao the Wyld was supposed to be the Dragon Reborn/Car'a'carn/Coramoor/whatever other names he has, as I suspect, perhaps they'd be able to convince some (maybe even most) of the Sharans that Demandred was a fraud. I don't know how well it would work. We know so little about them, mostly because they won't let anyone from the West beyond their trading centers, so it's hard to tell.

    The western leaders might be able to get the Sharans to sign a version of the Dragon Peace that will allow them to go back home and to hold their borders which realistically is probably all they want when all of this is said and done.
     
  9. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    Hopefully. I do think, though, that Rand's possibility where he sealed the DO mentioned that the Aiel and Two Rivers riflemen were still fighting in Shara.
     
  10. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Rand can potentially do it, if he so chooses. Note that Moghedien claims her bona fides as Bao by using the True Power. This fulfills the 'channeling without weaves' portion of that prophecy. Rand can do that. Presumably he always was Bao, but couldn't fulfill the prophecies until after the Last Battle.

    As far as the OP's question, I don't think we know enough about Cadsuane's mind or the Hall to say anything intelligent about the problem. The Hall will balk. If Cadsuane thinks it's important enough, she can make it a condition of raising her. The Hall then can decide just how badly they want Cadsuane, as opposed to how much they hate the idea. My gut suggests there would be a compromise where some groups get left out. Less likely is Cadsuane managing to push Egwene's vision through in its entirety.

    Cadsuane's independent streak coupled with her intelligence suggests to me that she probably sees the unaffiliated channelers as a substantial base of power. She's not power hungry in the conventional sense, but she does want to do things her own way without outside interference. The unaffiliated channelers could be a means toward reducing the Hall's influence.

    Of course, that doesn't really matter unless the Aes Sedai remove the Oaths. If they don't, Cadsuane's reign will be brief indeed, and at that point your guess is as good as mine.
     
  11. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Sweden
    The only way I can see the Sharan having friendly relations with the White Tower is if the factions that followed Demandred are rooted out of their society, and the new rule(ers) that arise over there turn to the west for help and/or to make reparations for what parts of their people did.

    I don't see the damane ever having ties to the One Tower. They're the opposite of the Aes Sedai, in a lot of regards. They're slaves who're forced to use the OP as a weapon. No. Seanchan channelers will have no relations to the White Tower until they're freed.
     
  12. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,109
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    If I remember correctly, Demandred brought all the Sharan channelers to the LB. Even if he didn't the Sharans power is greatly reduced and they are now known as a threat. Before everyone goes their seperate ways, it would be good for a coalition of Aes Sedai and at least the Wise Ones to gain a measure of control in Shara. The Sea Folk would want to open new trade in Shara also.

    Maybe the Sharans are the answer for for some type of agreement or cooperation for the Aes Sedai, Wise Ones and Windfinders.
     
  13. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,817
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI, US
    Given the size of Shara, and that there were only around 400 of them (though that seems small, I may have misremembered), it is likely Demandred didn't bring all the Ayyad. Brandon Sanderson said he didn't control all the factions in Shara.
     
  14. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Sweden
    Mm. And it feels like there's bound to be a hell of a lot more channelers there, given that they've been actively breeding them for 3000 years. Although I guess, maybe not comparatively much as Randland, since so much of Shara is a desert. But still ... a whole lot than 400.
     
  15. Kiranthus Solaron

    Kiranthus Solaron

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I think that there is a good chance all of the channelers in non seanchan/sharan lands will become closely linked with the Aes Sedai. Cadsuane is too strong willed to let the factions out of thier agreements with Egwene and will be determined to link the Black tower with the White. I think that most factions will be concerned with the Sharans. They can't do anything about the Seanchan without violating the Dragon's Peace (plus they will be preoccupied retaking Seanchan itself), but most will see all Sharans as darkfriends on the loose. SInce most randlanders know little to nothing about Sharans, you can expect them to be ignorant that Demandred only controled some of them.

    Mayene being the closest and with the Whitecloaks seting up there, are the most likely to push for a joint invasion against the 'darkfriend' Sharans. Heck some Sharans may even provoke this as they are pushed out of Shara (I assume that although Demandred did not take all of the forces under his control, that he took enough of them that those factions are crippled and easy meat for the rest of the peeved of Sharans). Aeil and Whitecloaks would quickly find themselves outnumberd and magically outgunned and call upon the Dragon's Peace for other nations to send troops including the White tower. I could easily see Cadsuane using the guise of coordinating for battle to knit the female channeler factions and specially the Ashamen into a single homogenous force. It would likely take the 100 years as predicted in Rand's possible future (and another generation of channelers who are used to the idea of cooperation between the factions) for it to happen, but the ever present threat of Seanchan invasion and the Sharan perceived threat should given any Amrylin enough chances to bring them all together.
     
  16. Laurelin Allendra

    Laurelin Allendra

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Fair points, and I agree - except for the fact that a massive, debilitating battle just occured that wiped out a massive chunk of the population as well as substantial resources. I don't see any of Randland jumping at the idea of more war any time soon unless the have to - especially since they know so little about their enemy.
     
  17. Kiranthus Solaron

    Kiranthus Solaron

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I think the most likely candidates for pushing war with the Sharans are the Whitecloaks, Ashamen, and the Sharans themselves. Whitecloaks have the desire to fight darkfriends even when its not wise, Ashamen want to prove they can be the protectors, and well the Sharans are a wild card. Any of these three could cause a minor skirmish to flame into all out war, even if the other nations dont want to. The dragon's peace would draw in the Aeil and eventually the rest. The irony is that a war with Shara would help them continue the comradere they started to form at the last battle and would allow for the development of black powder weapons as there would be lots of necessity.
     
  18. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Sweden
    I don't think either side wants more fighting now. Everyone has to rest. The Asha'man will want to build up their reputation; to most of the world, they're still another Breaking waiting to happen. I bet that'll change soon enough, but they will definitely want to build a power structure so that they can achieve an equal level of power to that of the White Tower. All other nations have cities to rebuild, crops to regrow, people to heal, armies that need to be filled with soldiers again ... before any other battle can take place.

    Same goes for the Sharans. They had their entire political system destroyed and have probably seen as much chaos as Randland. It'll take a long time before they're willing to go out into war again, I imagine. And when they're ready ... I guess it depends on which factions are in power. If those that opposed Demandred seize control, I could see diplomatic relations between them and the rest of the world.
     
  19. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,109
    Location:
    Portland, OR
     
  20. Owin al'Kef

    Owin al'Kef

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Chicago, IL, USA
    I'm not quite so sure about Shara. Even in Rand's "perfect" future where he killed the DO, he mentioned that the war was still going on in Shara. If this is happened in a world where 3 dead constituted a battle, I have to think that Shara will still go to war in the current future.