Wheel of Time Reread - New Spring

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Atarah al'Norahn, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. Arella Mathara

    Arella Mathara Accepted

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    I got the book now. I'm doing audiobook and usually listen to 100 pages a day, I think. I'll just follow whatever pace we agree on, Atarah Sedai, I got two other books going now anyway ^^
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  2. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Outreach Activities Coordinator Historian Head of the Gray Ajah Tower Gatekeeper

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    Starting Chapter 13 :look I am listening to the audio book and reading on my kindle at the same time.
     
  3. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records TVT Editor Historian

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    Okay, if no one else has any preferences on pacing--I don't know, does 4 or 5 chapters a week sound okay? Too much? Too little?
     
  4. Ignis al'Caleum

    Ignis al'Caleum Accepted

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    I didn't realize that we had started this yet lol. I think having some sort of a schedule to follow would be great.
     
  5. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records TVT Editor Historian

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    We haven't actually started yet--Ilverin has just read ahead :lol I was waiting to hear how quickly people want to go through the reading :)

    I'm planning to put together a schedule once I get an idea of what might be too quick or slow.
     
  6. Arella Mathara

    Arella Mathara Accepted

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    Yeah, I've finished it :look

    I would love to discuss a bit when I have had the chance to gather my thoughts a bit. Was a fun reread!

    ETA: I'm not very good at pacing myself it seems. I will write my thoughts for the different chapter bulks when Atarah Sedai has made us a list. I think this will be the best format for me to do this ^^
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  7. Elia LePhant

    Elia LePhant Aes Sedai Historian

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    Sounds good to me.
     
  8. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records TVT Editor Historian

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    You're all so fast :lol

    I'll post a schedule tomorrow (well, later today since it's after 1:00am :look) and we can officially start :)
     
  9. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Sweet
     
  10. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records TVT Editor Historian

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    Okay! New Spring Schedule! I'll update the first post with this as well :) I'm putting Friday the 22nd as start date since it's after 10:30pm on Thursday the 21 as I write this :p

    New Spring Re-Read Schedule

    Friday, May 22 - Thursday, May 28: Chapters 1 - 5

    Friday, May 29 - Thursday, June 4: Chapters 6 - 10

    Friday, June 5 - Thursday, June 11: Chapters 11 - 15

    Friday, June 12 - Thursday, June 18: Chapter 16 - 20

    Friday, June 19 - Thursday, June 25: Chapters 21 - Epilogue​

    I figured the last week we might as well do the last chapter and epilogue rather than setting a separate weke aside from them. If the pace is too slow or too fast we can always adjust as needed.

    I can post some discussion questions each week, or we can just do a free for all discussion.
     
  11. Bruce al'Kay

    Bruce al'Kay Accepted Social Marketing Manager

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    If it's ok, I'll join? :) I love New Spring.
     
  12. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records TVT Editor Historian

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    Absolutely!

    And yeah, it's such a good book :)
     
  13. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Chapter 1
    A very general introduction, seems somewhat isolated from the rest of the plot
    Plants
    Oak, Leatherleaf
    Animals
    Horse, owl, hawk
    Character development
    Lan
    Avoids Aes Sedai, wouldn’t even have one heal him
    He laughs
    He learned to be aware of his surroundings even when asleep
    He initially joined the war because he believed the Dark One had directed the Aiel, but no longer believes
    He refuses to lead Malkieri in battle
    Misconceptions
    Bukama calls the Aiel Darkfriends
    Chapter 2
    We start to learn about Moiraine and Suian
    Mysteries
    Has Gitara really been having fortellings? - I think probably not
    Characters
    Appear
    Moiraine, Suian, Tamra, Gitarra, Elin Warrel
    Mentioned
    Temaile, Brendas, Azil Mareed, Artur Hawkwing, Elaida, Merean
    Character development
    Moiraine
    Is uncomfortable talking about romance - it lacksdecorum
    Misconceptions
    Moiraine still believes no Army breached Tar Valon’s walls - Is this one of the secret facts even Aes Sedai don’t know
    Miscellaneous
    Moiraine and Siuan were both born with the spark
    Moiraine thinks of the Tower library as containing copies of almost every book that had ever been printed, something the Browns would disagree with
    Chapter 3
    More about Moiraine and Suian's relationship and their personalities, we also seem Tamra's plan to secretly find the Dragon Reborn
    Characters
    Mentioned
    Meilyn, Larelle, Akkarin, Verin, Alanna
    Appeared
    Myrelle Berengari, Tarna Feir, Aledrin, Brendas, Zemaille, Aisling Noon
    Character Development
    Suian
    Siuan is too straight forward to have much ability at Daes Daemar
    Moiraine things Siuan is born lead
    Suian wants to see the world
    Miscellaneous
    Only one daughter of a ruler had become Amyrlin seat - do we know who this is? We are later told Elayne could become the first openly Aes Sedai ruler in a thousand years or more
    Male servants tend to ignore Accepted, female one tend to watch them closely
    There are rooms for over two hundred accepted, but half haven’t been open in memory. There are about 60 occupied
    There are under a hundred novices rooms occupied, fewer than 20 of the novices will test for accepted
    Some men, the spark doesn’t come until as late as 30
    There are four Sea Folk Aes Sedai, two almost as old as Gitarra. There are three by the time of the books, including Zemaile, presumably the older two have died
    Moiraine has seen Zemaile fumble a weave time after time before setting perfectly - is she faking not being able to do it?
    Despite the fortelling, Moiraine isn’t sure if Rand has actually been born yet
     
  14. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Yes, I think Zemaile is afraid to learn "too quickly" so she fumbles longer than she actually needs to learn the weave. She doesn't know it before she arrives I think, but she could learn quicker than she does...

    One reason only one daughter of a ruler have become Amyrlin is, I think, that it would create an unfortunate link between the Aes Sedai and one specific nation. Daes Daemar plays into that as well I think...
     
  15. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Chapter 4
    An uneventful chapter. Moiraine and Suian ride to just outside TarValon and we learn the Aiel are retreating. They both think it possible the Dragon hasn’t been reborn yet
    Characters
    First Appearance
    Meidani. Brendas, Katerine, Carlinya, Steler, Sarene
    First Mention
    Temaile, Desandre, Coladra Atuan, Pritalle, Edesina, Ellid
    Character Development
    Moiraine
    Moiraine has already settled on Blue
    Siuan
    Moiraine thinks she might choose Green
    Chapter 5
    Mostly just handing out money and a little more of Moiraine’s thoughts and how she differs from Suian. We also learn Laman has been killed
    Characters
    Appearance
    Meri do Ahlan a’Conlin, Sedrin do Ahlan a’Conlin, Careme Mowly, Ellya Mowly, Susa Wynn, Cyril Wynn, Danil, Elaida, Meilyn, Andro, Malvin, Merean
    Mentioned
    Katrine do Catalan a’Corelle, Jak Wynn, Laman, Moressin, Aldecain
    Character Development
    Suian
    Moiriane thinks she is not having difficulties and has taken charge easily
    Suian stops Moiraine from sending Susa away
    She works out the woman was likely in the Tower before Moiraine does
    Suian never gives in to anything
    Mystery
    Who is the woman who speaks to them about Susa Wynn? She seems very self possessed for someone put out of the Tower as a Novice because she could not channel.
    Why does Elaida defer to Meilyn? (This we find out a few chapters later). It does further raise the question of how the Aes Sedai hide it from the Accepted and Novices. Was it something they hadn't noticed before, or was it just that it was shocking seeing it from Elaida?
     
  16. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Outreach Activities Coordinator Historian Head of the Gray Ajah Tower Gatekeeper

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    Well, isn't this ironic :lol

    I had the same thought - I also think she is faking, or has been told to do it, so that people think that Sea Folk chanellers are weak. I wish we had some POV chapters with some of them to have some things answered *sigh*


    Hm, that is an interesting observation. It really could be because Moiraine has seen only unpleasentness from Elaida.
     
  17. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    They must surely have seen Aes Sedai together before, but we know that when they find the real reason it is a total surprise - something we see from all the other characters, none of them seem to figure out the way the hierarchy works. Perhaps they assume it is due to inherent personalities and never look deeper? It might also be why they are discouraged from thinking of how strong Aes Sedai are, otherwise they might make the connection? Do Aes Sedai avoid hanging out with someone who is to different to them in strength so that Novices and Accepted don't see obsequious behaviour?
     
  18. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I agree with chapter 4, it is a long ride and so uneventful when we have already read the description of TarValon in the main series many times... There are other long and fairly pointless chapters though...
     
  19. Bruce al'Kay

    Bruce al'Kay Accepted Social Marketing Manager

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    This is one of the things that I always ruminate on with Jordan - he does the "re-explain" thing sooooo many times over the course of the series. He re-explains the rules of Saidin vs. Saidar, he re-describes Tar Valon... a lot of the info we get is regurgitated. Of course I still love the series because I'm here, but I feel like this factor could have been reduced.

    (Apologies for spelling; I am "listening" through the re-read on Audiobook so I never see the names in particular written out!)

    My Notes:

    Chapter 1: The Hook
    • This chapter seems to be just placing us chronologically, in my opinion, although it becomes clear when we are in the next chapter also. Not sure.
    • The other thing about Robert Jordan is that the world is really rich. He includes tiny little details that I love. For example: "As sure as peaches were poison." I really dig things like that.
    • How do the Aiel know Lan at this point?
    • I liked the little Battle Tactics-101 with Hammers and Anvils.
    Chapter 2: A wish Fulfilled
    • Question: Tamra tells Moiraine and Siuan to lie, and I get that, but then she demonstrates the lie for them: "Gitara died without speaking." I would think her oaths would prevent her from saying that? Not sure how it works.
    Chapter 3: Practice
    • I love this chapter. One of the reasons I love New Spring is because the White Tower politics and Ajah posturing is one of my favorite parts of the Wheel of Time overall. Seeing more in-depth descriptions of the testings, their practice, the weaves -- all super cool.
    Chapter 4: Leaving the Tower
    • I agree with others - this was my least favorite of the chapters for this reading, with Ch. 3 probably being my favorite.
    • Siuan's interactions with Bannerman Steler are interesting still. We see her working up to an attitude of command and her contrasts with Moiraine.
    • I do think there's something in Moiraine and Siuan's interactions with the camp followers, though (especially . They're learning to be Aes Sedai. This is such an interesting book in part because I think it humanizes Moiraine to an extreme degree. Starting with the Eye of the World I see Moiriane as an icy, supremely competent and confident character. This chapter particularly (and New Spring overall) show that she has doubts and insecurities and certainly doesn't know everything.
    Chapter 5: The Human Heart
    • A short but good chapter. We learn a bit about pillow friends in the Tower.
    • The Great Hunt is our first actual introduction to Siuan and by that point, her old friendship with Moiraine is just memory. It's so cool to see them so close here and the foundations of that. The prequel really does go back and solidify different parts of the saga.
     
  20. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    It's interesting to see the character development - later we see Suian as being known for having a temper, but Moiraine not so much (though Verin does note she isn't particularly easy going). Also how Siuan is totally inept as Daes Daemar, but does see other types of pattern quicker than Moiraine (more of this in the upcoming chapters, I'm not sure its totally consistent)
    A lot of the Accepted are later in the books as Aes Sedai - we do get figures as to how many there are. We also know a few are Black Ajah (is the percentage that go Black the same as overall, or do many Aes Sedai not turn until many years have passed?)
    Also, Verin is even shorter than Moiraine, I missed that before.
    We also see Cairhienin being described again as short and pale - the whole physical characteristics of a nation never really made sense. Were the people who previously lived there - the inhabitants of Shandalle and Tova both short and pale? Or the people who lived in southern part of Almoren? Or did they all gather by size a thousand years before, following the chaos of the War of the Hundred years?