"What They SHOULD Change" (Spoilers All)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time TV Show' started by Bracken Farthyne, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Bracken Farthyne

    Bracken Farthyne Novice

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    What do you guys think about what Daniel Greene has to say in this video?

    Link to Video

    I think you should watch Daniel Greene just in general — I enjoy his content. He also defends these positions in his video (meaning, he explains more about why he thinks they should do these things), so I still think you should watch it, but here are the basic recommendations he makes:
    • Tweak the end of Eye of the World. A lot of readers came away from that not really understanding what had actually happened, and DG suspects it was because Jordan hadn't fully settled on some of the rules of his world.
    • Reduce the number of Forsaken. For the scope of a miniseries, thirteen antagonists plus the Big Bad is too many. They should either roll some of the forsaken together into the same person or just say that some of them were, like, balefired out of existence before the events of the books, or something.
    • Condense the Slog. Those three books could all be about a season and a half MAX. Focus on the Tower conflict and Rand's superbadass moments, e.g. the cleansing, and seriously reduce the amount of screen time everything else gets.
    • Crank up the psychological/internal conflict. The madness element of male channeling is one element that makes WOT distinct from other chosen-one-y narratives. Lean into it.
    • Remove Shara's participation altogether. It doesn't serve much narrative purpose except raising the stakes during TG, and the stakes are already pretty gotdang raised at that point. In the condensed format of a miniseries, introducing a whole new culture just for the couple of episodes covering TG is a waste of expositional effort.
    • Crank up the LGBTQ and minority representation. I know this one's gonna be contentious, so I'm not summing up his argument; watch it if you wanna talk about it. Personally I'd rather not, given that that's already been dithered about in other threads.
    • Condense Galad and Gawyn to one character. Egwene didn't need a love interest at the end there, and frankly Gawyn wasn't good for much else. Scrap him and keep the more interesting character, Galad.
    What do you think?
     
  2. Jocasta Braithe

    Jocasta Braithe Novice

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    Morgase's plotline post Gaebril. I don't care if they figure out how to kill her off or stash her somewhere until she's needed again, but I don't need to see every moment of her life in between.
     
  3. Bracken Farthyne

    Bracken Farthyne Novice

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    :lol Wooord. I don't think it was a bad story, but for the show it will be a bit tangential, IMO.
     
  4. Jocasta Braithe

    Jocasta Braithe Novice

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    Exactly, I kind of enjoy her as a character, but I would much rather have them cut her than cut something important.
     
  5. Leala al'Dareis

    Leala al'Dareis Aes Sedai Community Care Coordinator Forum Moderator

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    On Daniel's last point, I think they should either scrap Gawyn, cut down his participation, or show some actual character development with him.

    Like, at least make it to where he's good for Egwene, instead of constantly and arbitrarily contrary. :rolleyes
     
  6. Keisha al'Benn

    Keisha al'Benn Aes Sedai

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    I don't think Gawyn could be cut entirely, but either limited in screen time or like Leala says, character development.
     
  7. Dars al'Kaskade

    Dars al'Kaskade Recruit

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    Re: Slog...
    if the Faile kidnapping plot is retained, it should last only one or maybe two episodes. The Aiel take her at the end of episode, whatever, 38, and she's rescued by the end of ep 40 at the latest.
     
  8. Skaya Tristian

    Skaya Tristian Aes Sedai

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    I think they really need to develop him not totally nix him.. I however wouldn't mind a whole lot less of Faile.. She got on my last nerve.
     
  9. Jocasta Braithe

    Jocasta Braithe Novice

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    I think Faile might work out more sympathetic if we spend less time in Perrin's head. I always think we see Perrin's frustration and confusion but she also must be confused and frustrated but we don't see inside her head and Perrin never picks up on it. I hope their relationship looks a little different from the outside.

    I'm wondering if Elayne's succession can be compacted a little bit? It's really dragging on ATM.
     
  10. Bracken Farthyne

    Bracken Farthyne Novice

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    I fully agree, Skaya Sedai. "Woman refuses to communicate and is mad at man for not reading her mind" is very high on my list of most hated relationship tropes. Part of me thinks RJ was trying to do a feminism by having her be a "strong" female character and have Perrin have to accommodate her? But to me it feeds too much into this kind of pernicious idea that women are baffling creatures who men can't hope to understand, and the best they can do is give up and apologize for things they didn't even know they were doing wrong. I started out really intrigued by her and quickly switched to wishing for death every time she was "on screen."

    Hmm, there's an interesting idea. I think they would have to make some changes to her character to make this happen, though, because IIRC, the times we were in her POV, she wasn't so much confused by him as affronted that he was Doing it Wrong. I could find her less unlikeable, I think, if she was acting from a place of misunderstanding, instead of how I remember her thought process from the books ... which was more, she understood why he thought he was behaving the right way, but it wasn't how she wanted him to behave, so rather than TELLING him how she wanted him to behave, she manipulated him for four books until he stumbled on the right answer.

    I mean, to some extent I guess I'm being a little unfair. Maybe she can have this as a cultural background and have blind spots about communication as a character flaw that is part of what makes her complex and a whole person. But for that to "sell," she's going to have to learn and grow past that and meet the poor man in the middle, instead of sticking to her guns until she gets what she wants.
     
  11. Jocasta Braithe

    Jocasta Braithe Novice

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    I don't think we get her POV until she's made gai'shain to Sevanna. She is much more likeable to me once I start seeing her perspective from first person. Jordan is pretty good at portraying that people are not the same on the inside as they appear to others. I hope she gets good development. I am actually quite fond of her, even though I would like to stomp on her feet sometimes.
     
  12. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    I haven't watched the video but I generally agree with the points summarized in the first post. A few things:
    • I'm part of the minority who really like Faile. She's not perfect or even admirable all the time, but I like her. I put more of her behavior down to immaturity (the stuff with Perrin in the Ways was very petulant-teenager-ish) and cultural differences in how people should interact and what is acceptable for a man or woman to do, rather than to stereotypical misunderstood female tropes. She has SERIOUS cultural blindspots and I think that could be explored in the show in an interesting way. I'm totally good with compressing the kidnapping plot though!
    • I like the idea of character improvements for Gawyn much more than combining him and Galad into one.
     
  13. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Oh, forgot to add:
    • although I would understand if they cut our Shara, IF the budget is there for it I think it would be amazing to see onscreen - out of nowhere this entire army appears that is dressed differently and accompanied by intricately tattooed channelers :eek
     
  14. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

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    YES!!
    That went on far too long!
     
  15. Sorcha Al'Verdan

    Sorcha Al'Verdan Aes Sedai

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    I'd like to see them handle the Mat and Tylin thing a bit differently if they don't eliminate it entirely. Namely, I'd like to see Elayne not laugh at Mat when she realizes what's happened.
     
  16. Aratouial Delafeld

    Aratouial Delafeld Citizen

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    My opinion on what should happen with Mat and Tylin. Either:

    1) They have nothing more than a formal relationship. She's a queen offering hospitality to an important guest, that's it.
    2) She is interested, he rejects her, she respects that and doesn't force him.
    3) They have sex but it's clear both are enthusiastically consenting. If the show keeps some of the BDSM-y elements, it's done with a BDSM-practicing consultant and an intimacy coordinator (or someone who is both).

    OR:

    4) They stay true to Mat's feelings in the book, they stay true to the book but they make it 100% abso-effing-lutely clear it is rape. The narrative of the show has empathy and compassion for Mat and what he's going through, and clearly condemns Tylin as a rapist and Mat's friends as in the wrong for making light of sexual violence against men. This should absolutely only be filmed under advisement of sexual violence prevention advocates and experts in how sexual violence against men happens (the initial act, victim's response, social responses, etc).

    I feel so strongly about this I might boycott the show if they don't do this right, and I'd be UPSET about not being able to watch it anymore.
     
  17. Arella Mathara

    Arella Mathara Citizen

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    I strongly agree, Aratouial. You're spot on.
     
  18. Sorcha Al'Verdan

    Sorcha Al'Verdan Aes Sedai

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    I agree, though I'd prefer the 4th option. Like when Elayne finds out, she gets pissed on his behalf and the reaction is part of what makes her one of the rare nobles he can tolerate, and reinforces his dislike for bloody nobleman in general. He can still express that he grew fond by the end, but the whole hunting / running him down like a stag part needs to be clearly not okay.
     
  19. Aratouial Delafeld

    Aratouial Delafeld Citizen

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    I really like the idea of Elayne going to bat for him, Daughter-Heir/Queen-Apparent -- to -- Queen, and for that to really cement their relationship beyond the superficial (especially since he has other reasons to be feel tied to Nynaeve and Egwene).
     
  20. Bracken Farthyne

    Bracken Farthyne Novice

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    I love this. Sorcha Sedai, please tweet this to the show runners immediately!