Unsaid Weaves

[Kalez al'Xael]

Within the final book, AMoL, Jordan touched briefly on a few new weaves, some of which were surprising. It made me think that there was a ton more to weaving than he had already shown. It could have been made up for effect at the end of the story, but I really don't think so. With things like peep-hole gateways, double bonding, the new anti-balefire, and other weaves touched on in AMoL that I am suddenly forgetting, what else do you think there could be?

Also, please help me remember what those other things were by posting them as well. I have a horrible memory :P

 

[Amier Kavellen]

What you ask requires pure speculation, though if Jordan and Sanderson did take a logical approach to weaves, following that logic shouldn't put us too far into the woods regarding extrapolating new weaves. Egwene demonstrates that Balefire has an opposite, and that when the two make contact, they cancel each other like positrons and electrons. Perhaps this means that other weaves have an opposite. If Balefire destroys the Pattern and anti-Balefire rebuilds it, what of Gateways or even the Mask of Mirrors? Here's a good one: what of Compulsion? If they each had an opposite, what would they be like?

 

[Elorenya d'Rahien]

Compulsion DOES have an opposite; it's how you heal compulsion. Rand teaches Nynaeve how to do it at one point.

 

[Mattrim al'Korin]

Speculation here, but why wouldn't their be a way to heal someone who has been turned to the Shadow? Wouldn't it be similar to healing compulsion? The person may be possessed, but what if it's like what Rand experienced when Semirhage had the male a'dam on him?

 

[Tazren Talamar]

Could be very possible? If you can turn someone dark forcibly, couldn't you also turn someone good, forcibly? Although removing morality feels like it would be a lot easier than creating it in someone.

 

[Jade Bel' Garter]

I personally think , it might be impossible due to the soul being killed during process. They keep saying it has his memories but that is not him. So maybe during to turning process the kill the soul and use the shell for dark purposes?

 

[Jade Bel' Garter]

One that was touched on but never really got back to was the possibility of talent sharing. It requires alot to do I mean have to double bond , and be in circle. but seriously that could have helped the light alot to have bonded pairs linked and both able to control the flow and use each others talents.

 

[Alora Sionn]

I agree with you about the soul being dead Jade. They always say anything can be healed except death and the way the turning seems, its like they are dead inside, I think that's permanent.

 

[Tazren Talamar]

Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

That is my basis for believing that it could be done.

 

[Kalez al'Xael]

One that was touched on but never really got back to was the possibility of talent sharing. It requires alot to do I mean have to double bond , and be in circle. but seriously that could have helped the light alot to have bonded pairs linked and both able to control the flow and use each others talents.

Ah, yes, THIS was the other one I was trying to think of. There seemed like so many things that someone learned that never got passed around that could have changed everything. There were also things that weren't used as often as they should have that would have ended the battle much quicker. Like, imagine if they all linked, even for just a little while, and just made a large deathgate and swept it through the trolloc line... done and done, ya know? Also, they constantly use fireballs when they could have used lightning or erupting earth, which seems to do much more damage than a measly fireball.

Another thing that i always wondered about was {spoilers... kinda}

Spoiler

why they didnt use horizontal gates as weapons. Androl could have made one massive horizontal gate to cut all the trollocs through the middle instead of bringing lava, which is messy and overall dangerous to the surrounding area as well.

 

[Kalez al'Xael]

What you ask requires pure speculation, though if Jordan and Sanderson did take a logical approach to weaves, following that logic shouldn't put us too far into the woods regarding extrapolating new weaves.

Yes, and yes, that was what I meant. Following the logic. There were plenty of hints and beginnings to new things there were only briefly touched upon (not that I remember most of them)

 

[Elya Trimrode]

I was also puzzled about the horizontal gates, they seem like such a useful weapon, especially for Androl, but nobody ever uses them. That's a thing that frustrated me, that some weaves were never used to their full potential.
I think that forcibly turning to the shadow should be able to be healed. As Jordan said:

It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided.

Key word being 'unaided'.

 

[Ibon Caseï]

I think it's logical that so many new weaves appeared. Evolution and change only happens in times of great distress, when change is NEEDED in order to survive. In stable, predictable, peacefull times, there is no such need and thus change happens very slowly or not at all. So yeah, it makes sense to be innvoative and think more on your feet when your lives are in serious danger.
Also, who knows? There might be more individuals with cool talents out there, but they are either too weak to ever have been tought to channel or they never showed it to anyone else, thinking it was no big deal.

 

[Mirindyin Zakura]

About being turned:
What if the process of turning someone forcibly to the Shadow just removes Light from the person? The Dark One showed Rand the world without Light and it seemed quite similar to what the turned ones are.

 

[Almira ni'Caldazare]

If someone used compulsion to turn someone else to the shadow then they can be healed. But people can still be tricked or threatened into doing things. No one should take away another persons'choice. Even if they make the wrong one.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

I personally think , it might be impossible due to the soul being killed during process. They keep saying it has his memories but that is not him. So maybe during to turning process the kill the soul and use the shell for dark purposes?

You're thinking of the gray men.

Turning someone to the dark does not kill their soul at all.


I see no reason with why someone couldn't make a "turn to light weave" does the opposite, ie increasing charitably, kindness etc, and suppressing the darker elements of the personality.

I mean its the same concept really, just choosing which aspects of a personality to alter, should be reasonably straightforward.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

I disagree Axis. There are many rules that can't broken "just because", and I think this is one of them. Why? Because the Light is the element of choice. By turning someone to the shadow you take away his ability to choose, which is something the DO would do. By turning him to the light you do the same, which is not something the Light would usually do.
It might be possible to RESTORE the choice, by removing the influance of the shadow from a person, but I don't think one could forcibly turn someone to the light if they CHOSE the shadow to begin with.

 

[Jaryd Kosari]

I actually 100% agree with Aulrick!

 

[Neria Hawke]

I also agree with Aulrick. That's the whole reason Rand decides not to kill the Dark One in the end. His idea of the world completely without the Dark One after the Last Battle simply doesn't work because it doesn't give people a choice of how to live their lives and it takes away a part of them as a person.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Kalez - I've been working on a Pathfinder Wheel if Time RPG update, and it includes a rather extensive list of weaves.
I think I have listed the majority of weaves from the books and the RPG up to the last book.

Also, most of the things you mentioned aren't really weaves at all, so much as using known weaves for other affects. I think the only REAL new weave exposed in the last book was the Flame of Tar Valon (anti-balefire as you call it).