Things that surprised you

Ealandrelle Melyma

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I also thought from the passage in question that the lightning could have struck his ashandarei (would that have been covered by the foxhead?). But I also agree with Tazren Gaidin, in that I had always imagined that Rahvin had channelled at the sky, inducing lightning, rather than the lightning being woven saidin itself.
 
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I haven't read all of this thread (I don't want to get spoiled silly - I've already given myself enough spoilers, I like spoilers, but I don't want to be spoiled silly, then there's little point to reading the book *shrug* - so sorry if this has been done to death)

Yeah that was me - I got shot down in a ball of giant flames ... I had wanted to trounce in here and go "I told you so", but then thought better of it :laugh:, although is there a thread around where everyone goes "I KNEW IT", like when Verin turned out to be Black? I'm having trouble keeping up with the threads and reading the book as well ... spoilers and all ya know ...

I just wanted to mention the Demandred thing, 'cause it was a loooooooong time ago that it was discussed (like 18 months or so), which is probably why you don't remember it well, I remember it because I suggested it plus I got destroyed pretty quick, which was swift even for one of my crazy ideas, I don't think I'll ever forget it :laugh: it was kinda fun, but once we got ripped up (I wasn't the only one who thought it, I was just the one stupid enough to say it first :P), it was kinda just dropped and never mentioned again ... But really I simply couldn't think of a better place for him to be - especially as all the other Forsaken had no idea what he was up to - why not jump into a forgotten people, the other Forsaken wouldn't bother ... great place to hide, consolidate a rule, then march out with it and surprise the hell out of everyone ... But yeah, it was me and then a few others who went "well where else could he be, that makes the most sense, he's dropped off the map", and the Sharans are pretty much off the map as well ... I was kinda pleased that good old Demandred actually showed up with them, as himself and not in a 'mask of mirrors' (or whatever that weave is called - I have an addled brain, I'm not quite through the book yet) ... But I do also remember something about RJ saying that he wasn't there or something to that effect, but I don't remember what it was that RJ actually said, but it strongly implied he wasn't on the other side of the Waste ... Just being helpful in jogging your memory Toral Gaidin :) (I'm not gloating, promise!)


ON TOPIC
The only surprise I've had so far is that Gawyn put on the 'death ring', I have skipped to the end and read the last chapter and a half, (the forementioned spoilers I gave to myself) so I kinda know who lived and who died, some people aren't mentioned, but hey ... In terms of surprises, there haven't been many for me yet - putting Elayne in charge of the armies did give me a bit of a shock, but it made sense as well, well it this makes sense, it was a shock but not much of a surprise ... BUT I am enjoying the book so far - I'm about 3/5's through, just over half way, it's been a great way to loose sleep so far LOL -- our bookshop was late on deliveries, I only got it last week, 2 weeks late *grump* ... but hey, I might get a surprise yet ....

Demandred in Shara has been a pretty common theory on here that we've discussed to death, and most of us have always thought it was pretty likely.

The only other real viable option was that he was King Roedran in Murandy.

We've been waiting to tick off one of those options for ages.


I can't believe you're reading the book out of order, that would KILL me. I pretty much avoided the forums entirely until I finished it.
 

Dee Aremm

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Is anyone else disappointed about the Ways and Machin Shin not being sorted out?

I was a little surpirsed that when Min basically rooted out Moghedien, Moggy turned out to be the same girl that had served kaf to Mat... how come Mat didn't manage to detect anything, what with his medallion and everything?

As I was reading through the Prologue, I though... "YES!!! Finally we can bury Taimandred, as there's still people who would tell me in no uncertain ways that the Taimandred theory was the only correct outcome"

I'm not sure I remember seeing anything here about it (Then again, I don't frequent the book forums that often) but I did have an inkling about Demandred being in Shara. He did, after all, tell the other Forsaken that he "was building a grand army". I ruled out the EverVictorius, the Band, the Dragonsworn.... so where else could he have been? He could, of course, have been in the Black Tower, however, the BT wasn't so much about being an army as they were weapons. So there.

I wasn't surprised about Egwene's death when I got that far, it "made sense" seing as Gawyn died. I was more surprised about her finding a counter to Balefire, to be honest.

Graendal getting Compulsed... that made me think "Serves you right, b***h"

Same with Moggy getting collared again... I kind of think neither Egwene nor Rand would mind THAT particular one getting collared :laugh:

I WAS surprised that it was only 6 months ago the Elayne got preggers, though... she's been pregnant for quite some books... (probably at least 10 years since... if not more by now, bookwise :laugh:)
 
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Alicia Schairen

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Demandred in Shara has been a pretty common theory on here that we've discussed to death, and most of us have always thought it was pretty likely.

The only other real viable option was that he was King Roedran in Murandy.

We've been waiting to tick off one of those options for ages.


I can't believe you're reading the book out of order, that would KILL me. I pretty much avoided the forums entirely until I finished it.

RE Demandred ...
It wasn't when I last checked in, it was simply bounced out because of some RJ quote - Taim being Demandred was far more 'popular' with Murandy as the 'less popular but most likely' ... but then I haven't been around at all for the last 10-11 months or so, and not in the book forums for longer (last I was by was TGS, I was 'away' for ToM), so I don't know how much this got hammered in the last however many years, but I remember making a thread how silly all the other theories seemed, Murandy I simply didn't see as big enough for his "Grand Army", especially as he was unlikely to be the ONLY channeler in his "Grand Army", however, Shara did fit that bill though, in size, and like the Aiel, never give up channelers ... plus only Graendal (?) had been anywhere near there and had no intention of going back - I can't remember what she said, something about the one's she'd taken as being the 'only pretty ones there' or something along those lines, maybe it was more like 'the only ones worth taking', she also undoubtedly did Demandred an unintended favour, she took both leaders, which is probably part of the prophecy that Demmy filled, it's a bit hard to have a single ruler in their land unless you take out both at once, and Demmy isn't the type to snuggle up to anyone I don't think, and it seemed fairly obvious he was ruling on his own *shrug* just a theory about the prophecy ... But I've been almost certain he's been there since he dropped off the Forsaken radar, and I think it was book 6 that kinda confirmed it when he just would not even plot with (or against) the others - he seemed to really not care, AND started getting mighty pissed to be called to meetings (might have that book number wrong though), not that he was every very friendly to them, but he did cooperate at the very start, and I'm pretty sure he set Rand up more than a few times to fight the other Forsaken before Rand knew which one was which and before the Forsaken could consolidate whatever the hell they were doing ... plus the land seemed important from when it was mention in (what book 3, where the Aiel mentioned that only peddlers where allowed through to get the silk?) and if ALL people were going to fight, and Rand never went there, they were going to do something under someone's command ... once that place was mentioned, it just never left my head, in a "why are they being ignored" kind of way ... I don't know, the pieces just fit nicely, so it was no surprise to me at all ... it was not a shock to find out he ended up there ...


RE: reading out of order ....
It's been a fun but rather anti-climatic read, (I'm almost done now - 10 chapters to go, or well 8 if you count the ones I already read - is it just me or at the chapters REALLY short in this book?) ... and I jumped out of order because well, honestly I was bored, it's entertaining but also kinda 'dull', it just wasn't 'gripping', so that had me skip to the end to see how it ended, that was 'dull' too, given the effort in the last two books to perk up all the characters and put some life back into the story that RJ had basically drained with the never ending dribble he put into 2 out of the last 3 books he wrote solely himself - the ones that started and finished in the same place (I still can't read those books properly, I just skim them they're so boring!) ... IT has to be a DAMN GOOD book for me to read it cover to cover, and honestly - AMoL simply isn't living up to standard thus far ... :(


Curiosity ...
2 - the other oddity was at the beginning where Mat kept referring to himself by his full name ... that's just new, I don't think he's done that anywhere else except for at the Tower of Ghenji (sp?) where he said "And Matrim bloody Cauthon to even the odds", that's the only other place where I remember him using his name in a "3rd person" kind of way ... then, after shagging Tuon, he just sorta stopped that ... thought that really was more odd than annoying ... :scratch anyone know if he spoke to and about himself in that way prior to this book?

Surprises
Still sitting at zero ... Sanderson either played it safe with this book, OR I've read the books too many times ... But there are people here who have read the books more often than I have, and have been surprised ... then again, I focus on stupid little things which is why I keep getting scorched on the book threads for my crazy damn ideas :D (or at least that was true 2 years ago)
 
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Alicia: Regarding Graendal in Shara ... if that was his territory (so to speak), perhaps he gave her the leaders? As a gift, for a favour in return. He'd know she'd like them, after all.
 

Eluial Aldaran

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Biggest disappointment:
Moiraine. We spent, what 8 books, with her gone and hints about her return. Always mentioned about where she was and the loss of her. Then devote an entire theme of ToM to her rescue / return. I was so pumped thinking about the impact she will have on Rand. The people close to her that she would have a reunion with. Her role in the Last battle. And nothing. Literally nothing. She had 4 conversations with Rand. One with Nynaeve and that's it. Really? No interaction with Lan? No interaction with Siuan before her death? Barely interaction with Egwene. Come on! Then she spends the entire Last Battle clutching a damn rock in the Pit of Doom. At least Nynaeve tried to and did move. 900+ pages and she had 2 paragraphs of involvement in the last battle. Majorly disappointed in that.
Exactly this. I feel a little better that Brandon Sanderson explained her big role that Min saw was to ensure Rand and Egwene went into the last battle together (rather than her presence at SG at the end). But still. She is, hands down, my all time favorite character in the series, and I was really saddened that she got such little screen time, and that her role was pretty downplayed.

Biggest non-surprise:
Body swap. Knew it was coming, was very pleased to see that I was right about such a big thing.

Biggest surprise:
In terms of shock value, definitely the Sharans showing up. It was 100% out of the blue for me.

Most pleasant surprise:
Perrin finally manning up and choosing to help Rand (and the world) instead of dropping everything to save Faile. I hated Perrin for most of the series, but in the last two books he's finally come into his own and I really enjoyed reading his sequences in this book. I'm happy for him that he did end up finding Faile alive, but dear lord it's about time he got his act together.

There were all sorts of little things that surprised me or were unexpected throughout the book, but pretty much all of them have been listed already.
 
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RE Demandred ...
It wasn't when I last checked in, it was simply bounced out because of some RJ quote - Taim being Demandred was far more 'popular' with Murandy as the 'less popular but most likely' ... but then I haven't been around at all for the last 10-11 months or so, and not in the book forums for longer (last I was by was TGS, I was 'away' for ToM), so I don't know how much this got hammered in the last however many years, but I remember making a thread how silly all the other theories seemed, Murandy I simply didn't see as big enough for his "Grand Army", especially as he was unlikely to be the ONLY channeler in his "Grand Army", however, Shara did fit that bill though, in size, and like the Aiel, never give up channelers ... plus only Graendal (?) had been anywhere near there and had no intention of going back - I can't remember what she said, something about the one's she'd taken as being the 'only pretty ones there' or something along those lines, maybe it was more like 'the only ones worth taking', she also undoubtedly did Demandred an unintended favour, she took both leaders, which is probably part of the prophecy that Demmy filled, it's a bit hard to have a single ruler in their land unless you take out both at once, and Demmy isn't the type to snuggle up to anyone I don't think, and it seemed fairly obvious he was ruling on his own *shrug* just a theory about the prophecy ... But I've been almost certain he's been there since he dropped off the Forsaken radar, and I think it was book 6 that kinda confirmed it when he just would not even plot with (or against) the others - he seemed to really not care, AND started getting mighty pissed to be called to meetings (might have that book number wrong though), not that he was every very friendly to them, but he did cooperate at the very start, and I'm pretty sure he set Rand up more than a few times to fight the other Forsaken before Rand knew which one was which and before the Forsaken could consolidate whatever the hell they were doing ... plus the land seemed important from when it was mention in (what book 3, where the Aiel mentioned that only peddlers where allowed through to get the silk?) and if ALL people were going to fight, and Rand never went there, they were going to do something under someone's command ... once that place was mentioned, it just never left my head, in a "why are they being ignored" kind of way ... I don't know, the pieces just fit nicely, so it was no surprise to me at all ... it was not a shock to find out he ended up there ...

Well I've been here constantly for years and years and years, over every book.

And there's been convergences on theories, and I can tell you that we threw out Taimandred years ago, and Shara has been the top idea for Demandred for a long time for a lot of us here on Tarvalon. I certainly had zero surprise on that one. it's never been something we could prove one way or the other, but it was one of the top running candidates, if not the first.

The RJ quote was about whether we would actually see main characters go to Shara (which we didn't as expected). But Shara has been our top choice hiding hole for Demandred for a long time now, followed by Murandy. (we also decided against the Borderlanders)

RE: reading out of order ....
It's been a fun but rather anti-climatic read, (I'm almost done now - 10 chapters to go, or well 8 if you count the ones I already read - is it just me or at the chapters REALLY short in this book?) ... and I jumped out of order because well, honestly I was bored, it's entertaining but also kinda 'dull', it just wasn't 'gripping', so that had me skip to the end to see how it ended, that was 'dull' too, given the effort in the last two books to perk up all the characters and put some life back into the story that RJ had basically drained with the never ending dribble he put into 2 out of the last 3 books he wrote solely himself - the ones that started and finished in the same place (I still can't read those books properly, I just skim them they're so boring!) ... IT has to be a DAMN GOOD book for me to read it cover to cover, and honestly - AMoL simply isn't living up to standard thus far ... :(

Well each to their own, but I can't imagine a worse way to read a book. Any book. Whether a book is the borinigst thing imaginable, or a completely amazing, I cannot possibly picture a situation where reading ahead could make things better for enjoyment, only worse in both situations.
 
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Alicia Schairen

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Alicia: Regarding Graendal in Shara ... if that was his territory (so to speak), perhaps he gave her the leaders? As a gift, for a favour in return. He'd know she'd like them, after all.

I honestly never thought of that, although Graendal seemed to not know where he was as well - although maybe that was the favour - don't give me up and in return you can have these darling pretty things ... I don't know though, because of her confusion being pretty evident, although maybe I'm reading it wrong ... If I think about it for more than a snap second ... in one of her POV's she cursed Demmy pretty badly for leaving her out and not knowing where he was or what he was up to and she was frustrated about not knowing what he was doing ... read it in a different light and MAYBE, (just maybe) she was cursing him out for not helping her out while she was keeping his secret - I might have to go back to the book where Rand Bailfires the hell out of her mansion and she's in the cave being pissed at everyone - 'cause I'm sure it's there that we get a "where the hell is that man" moment, but that could have been more frustration that he didn't come help her ... rather than frustration that she doesn't know where he is, simply that he isn't with her ... if that makes any kind of rational sense ... (any idea what book that's in?) also - is there a thread that goes into the theory on this prophecy, I'd love to go join it, this is pretty much the only thread I've really dared interact on, I'll get into the forum a bit more once I have finished the book - but my reading time is now really limited, I move in 4 days and I'm not packed yet :laugh: nothing like a last minute rush to get the blood pumping, the thrill of it all *cough* actually, it's pretty bloody stupid! :embarassed:


Well I've been here constantly for years and years and years, over every book.

And there's been convergences on theories, and I can tell you that we threw out Taimandred years ago, and Shara has been the top idea for Demandred for a long time for a lot of us here on Tarvalon. I certainly had zero surprise on that one. it's never been something we could prove one way or the other, but it was one of the top running candidates, if not the first.

The RJ quote was about whether we would actually see main characters go to Shara (which we didn't as expected). But Shara has been our top choice hiding hole for Demandred for a long time now, followed by Murandy. (we also decided against the Borderlanders)

I know you have, we've had clashes on certain things, and agreed on others, you have more book knowledge than a lot here, and (from what I can remember) pretty active all over every book thread, not just the latest ones, but going back into the early books where people were just starting out and getting all confuddled and helping them out, you're like the furniture here ;) If you vanish, I'd have to assume that Perth cracked off Australia and sank :P I'll defer to you on this, although I must admit, I didn't see any 'good' Demmy theories other than Shara that made any sense - Taim was just stupid - but DAMN it was popular!!! It was stupid to be sure, and discarded by most, but no doubt people honestly thought Taim was Demmy and are kinda sulking somewhere that that isn't true ... (well they probably are), and a LOT of people seem to be shocked that he came from Shara with the Sharians ... But as I said, you live here, I visit, so I'll take your word for it ...


Well each to their own, but I can't imagine a worse way to read a book. Any book. Whether a book is the borinigst thing imaginable, or a completely amazing, I cannot possibly picture a situation where reading ahead could make things better for enjoyment, only worse in both situations.

Not quite true ... sometimes it makes you want to know HOW it came out that way ... so it picks your curiosity back up rather than just throwing the book to the side and going "I'll get back to that at some point" (never), I do the same thing with boring movies, I skip to the end and go "ok, how'd that happen", then end up watching the whole damn boring thing ... a book takes up a lot more time, and with this one, I was really bored, war war war war, oh some conversation (Rand Vs Mat in bragging competition was kinda funny), more war, war, war ... ok, got the point, it's the end of the world, I don't care about battle tactics (except for the 4 Captains) but I don't need 5 chapters on battle in a row with no break in between on what each character is up to and thinking - other than about war, and how they have to be all 'proud' and not be seen being 'weak' or god forbid for most of the AS 'human' ('cause they're above that petty man bullshit and all, no sitting in the Grass looking exhausted for them), so yeah, it was and is a pretty boring book ... that's not to say that boring can't be entertaining - well boring is probably the wrong word, it's dull, the only thing really keeping it from being boring is the pace and the jumping between POV's, it's still dull though, same thing through different eyes ... so skipping to the end, picked up my curiosity again, like 'how did Perrin finally work out how to shift in and out of the wolf dream', things like that made me get more interested, the "how" factor was curious to me, the outcome was always pretty certain, the Shadow winning would have been the ultimate shock, but that wasn't going to happen, ever, so we knew HOW the book would end, but not in what state each character would be, finding out some of that made me curious how those things happened ... hope that makes more sense as to how I justify skipping to the end of a book ... if it still doesn't make any sense, well, *shrug*, we're already agreeing to disagree on the topic, but you seriously seemed confused as to why anyone would want to do such a thing ... that's my reason why ...
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Graendal did not know that Demandred was in Shara, she was really annoyed in one of the later books that she knew what every one of the Chosen did, except him...
 
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i wanted to see more about these Sharans and what in their culture allowed then to fight next to trollocs imean really. a little bit of back history in the form of a good pov would have been nice
 
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Alicia Schairen

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Graendal did not know that Demandred was in Shara, she was really annoyed in one of the later books that she knew what every one of the Chosen did, except him...

I did say "maybe (just maybe)" ... if you did read that bit where she was in the mountain a certain way, then it could be construed as a 'where the hell is that man after all I did for him, why isn't he here helping me out right now' bitterness bitch rather than a grumble that she still hadn't worked out the mystery of where Demmy was ... although I did read it originally as the latter, but I could also see how the former could work ... just thinking out loud (or thinking and writing at the same time) ... But I agree with you, Graendal probably had no idea where Demmy was any more than anyone else ... but I do think the two events somehow go together (the missing 'royals' and Demmy's taking over), but whether Graendal knew she was helping Demmy or not well *shrug*, most likely she didn't, and possibly she did it while Demmy was still poking around the place himself before he even found the Bao the Wild prophecy himself (unlikely he just 'fulfilled it', more likely he found it and then made himself 'fit' into it) and then took advantage of the mess Graendal made for fun ... I personally think that's more likely ...

Personally, I felt let down by the lack of tave'ren reunion. Those boys haven't all been in the same place since Tear

They were all at the Pit together - well Perrin and Mat were outside and Rand was inside, and they each visited his tent, so they were in the same place at the same time since Tear ... they just weren't all physically together on the same patch of dirt within touching distance ... However, I see your point and I agree, bit of a let down ...


Overall for the book ... not one single surprise ...a few 'heh' moments ... but not a single surprise ... more let down's than anything else ... :(
 

Aduiavas Ida

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How could that surprise you? This is Wheel of Time after all :p I was almost surprised that some of the main characters died at all :look:
 
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I wasn't on here before the book's release and Demandred being in Shara did actually surprise me, I thought he was in Murandy. Egwene's death also surprised me. The fact that Moiraine did so little also surprised me.

My craziest theory was that Demandred could be Talmanes because of his "grand army." :p
 
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