The woman with the Gray hair

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Giles Ru'Orden, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Fanatic Mr Fox

    Fanatic Mr Fox

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    In my opinion, i think the Woman with the Grey hair is actually Tigraine: or more precisely, Moridins mother. I think as the barriers weakend, the DO pulled Moridin and Tigraine from the multi-verse: one where Tigraine ignored Gitana Moroso and stayed to have Galads younger brother instead of heading to the Aiel waste. With Rand and Moridin being the opposite sides of the same coin... then think on it for a moment: if the DO was to beat you, then would it be the most sinister if he beat you, with you? Or more precisely, who Rand would have been if different choices had of been made.
     
  2. Fanatic Mr Fox

    Fanatic Mr Fox

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    In my opinion, i think the Woman with the Grey hair is actually Tigraine: or more precisely, Moridins mother. I think as the barriers weakend, the DO pulled Moridin and Tigraine from the multi-verse: one where Tigraine ignored Gitana Moroso and stayed to have Galads younger brother instead of heading to the Aiel waste. With Rand and Moridin being the opposite sides of the same coin... then think on it for a moment: if the DO was to beat you, then would it be the most sinister if he beat you, with you? Or more precisely, who Rand would have been if different choices had of been made.
     
  3. Mattrim al'Korin

    Mattrim al'Korin

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    I like this theory best. Would make the most sense.
     
  4. Elorenya d'Rahien

    Elorenya d'Rahien Aes Sedai

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    I ... kind of figured Nakomi was a hallucination, frankly. :look Avi was short on water and food at the time...
     
  5. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    I'm not sure how likely that theory is, but it is quite the interesting theory nonetheless.
     
  6. Ebona din Casei

    Ebona din Casei Aes Sedai

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    Regarding the voices in EOTW and aMOL: I always thought that BOTH was the creator, and the fact that Moiraine heard it (her gasp) confirms that it's not something inside of Rand's head, it's something others hear as well. And yes, you could argue that both are the DO, or that both are the Creator, but I feel very confident that the voices in the two books are the same voice. That's why he recognizes it, and that's why they're written in the same manner. Rand felt he needed some kind of "sign" that he was doing the right thing, and he got one. :)

    I always thought it was the Creator, but it depends on your viewpoint: If you believe that the DO is the one who's pulling all the strings, that he has been manipulating everyone from the start and that he actually beat Rand (because he made Rand realise that life needs the balance of good and evil, and thereby the DO continued to live)... Well, yes then it makes sense that the DO is the one talking. However, I doubt that the DO could ever have that much direct influence on the world through the bore, especially not as early as in EOtW. And besides, I have a more positive outlook on the series. I think the Creator chose Rand, and he wanted Rand to succeed, helping him where and how he could.
     
  7. Tobias Carawin

    Tobias Carawin Citizen

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    Could Nakomi be to the Creator what Shaidar Haran is to the DO? Maybe Nakomi is the "hand" of the Creator. I have always been partial to this theory as I feel it makes the most sense.
     
  8. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

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    It seemed like the Aviendha and Min at least knew that Rand was going to be reborn in a new body. Maybe Nakomi told Aviendha and she told Rand's other wives?
     
  9. Falone Charpontier

    Falone Charpontier

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    Interesting, Almira.. because we never know how they learn. They just know without it explained or hinted previously. It was obvious they knew something because after Rand emerged, and at the tunnel, all three showed no grief or sorrow. Hardly anyone seemed to think that odd.
     
  10. Kitan Tataru

    Kitan Tataru Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Maybe when they bonded him, they bonded his "soul", so to speak, and when it transferred to the new body, the bonds held.
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Yes, I would suspect that in some way, the Three knew that Rand was still alive because the Bond was still intact. All the signs point to this, they do not seem to grief like others who have lost a Bondmate, and they never even hestitate about whether he is really dead. I seem to recall also that Rand could still feel them as he rode away, thinking that they would catch up with him eventually...
     
  12. Striker

    Striker

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    Has anyone else imagined Nakomi might have been Aviendha from the future?

    There has been speculation, stemming from the Gateway she made in TFOH, that she might be able to time travel. In that book when she panic-discovered how to Travel her Gateway led to a Seanchan land gripped in snowy winter, that while the world was gripped in a brutal summer which would not be resolved until the Bowl of Winds was used months later.

    So consider an aged Aviendha, from the bad future the young Aviendha is warned to investigate, Traveling back in time to prevent things from unfolding in such a way. Does it seem a reasonable possibility Jordan/Sanderson might have had such an idea in mind?
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    No. Time-travel plots causes a lot of mess.
    The reason it was snow in Seanchan was that it was on the other side of the world. So summer in Cairhien is winter in Seanchan.

    Nakomi is an avatar of the Creator, sort of like Shaidar Haran was for the Dark One, but the Creator does not take part as much as the DO tries to do...
     
  14. Striker

    Striker

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    Seanchan runs as far North and South as the Americas do, but one of the Seanchan encountered there had been at Falme. It would be a longer trip to the West and South than just to the West. Plus, it was a magical summer which paid to attention to how things should work. Even when the Northern Hemisphere should have been deep in Winter the climate remained a brutal Summer.

    Edit: OTOH, if we interpret "I ran from you as hard as I could" in the most extreme sense, there is no further place she could have Travelled to on Earth than the opposite point of the globe, putting them nicely in the Southern Hemisphere. A point for you, I guess.​
    Certainly could be(I am in no position to declare what the writers were thinking), but is this idea based upon any official word of authorial intent I am unaware of, or is it personal speculation?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  15. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I believe that has been confirmed bu Team Jordan at some point, although I have to admit that I am not sure :look
     
  16. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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  17. Striker

    Striker

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    So I've been running the numbers(by which I mean I did a Google search on the question of WoT Time Travel), and it turns out that not only does the budget have room for more cheezeburgers but too the case for Time Travel is stronger than I had noticed.

    According to this person http://13depository.blogspot.com/2001/07/aviendhas-gateway.html over at the 13th Depository there is also an interesting incident in A Crown of Swords/The Path of Daggers where it is subtly hinted to be a few hours earlier on one side of an Aviendha Gateway than on the other.

    And while that is not proof of who Nakomi might be, it is a strong point in favor of it being Aviendha when it is to the likely time-traveler that Nakomi appears with favorite childhood snacks.

    What he has to say there is "Regarding Nakomi: “With all of the homages to global myths/legends in WoT is it fair to consider Nakomi as a Wandering Jew/Jenn?” Brandon’s response: “That’s a very clever question that nobody has yet asked me. I’m not going to say more, however.”

    And to say it is a clever question to ask if Nakomi could be considered as a Wandering Jew/Jenn certainly does not rule out a time travelling Aviendha.