The woman with the Gray hair

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Giles Ru'Orden, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Giles Ru'Orden

    Giles Ru'Orden Gaidin

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    Who is the woman with gray hair that we see at the beginning of the Epilogue?

    You know the one that tells Rand he is doing the right thing?

    The Creator?

    Nakomi?
     
  2. Jeffan Caliarthan

    Jeffan Caliarthan Aes Sedai Director of Marketing

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    Popular theory is that it's Nakomi (who Aviendha met in the Waste on her way to Rhuidean to become a Wise One), and that Nakomi is also The Creator's physical form in Randland.
     
  3. Mirandha Laflor

    Mirandha Laflor Aes Sedai

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    If Nakomi is the physical manifestation of The Creator it would make sense. The DO is referred to as male so to preserve balance The Creator would have to be female :D
     
  4. Murasaki al'Aevon

    Murasaki al'Aevon Gaidin Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb

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    That would fit with Jordan's original theme as well. With the Male half of creation being the seemingly flawed half, and the Female being strong.

    It is interesting to think of Nakomi being the Creator. Why did she choose only to show herself to the Aiel? Specifically Aviendha and Rand (the half-Aiel)?

    Why does the Creator care what happens to the DR after he is used in TG? Why initiate the body switch?

    If, for some reason, the Creator DOES care enough to spare Rand's life, does she initiate the body switch as when we see her in the epilogue?

    From where and when did this body-switching idea come? Did she speak with Aviendha more than what's recorded in ToM?

    Why had we never heard of this before? It seems a little Deus-ex-machina to me.

    If somebody can point out a time in any of the books where there's something prophesied or foreshadowed about body switching, please tell me.

    EDIT: I found this
    "■It is possible that Rand will die physically (since Min sees his funeral twice, in The Eye of the World, Chapter 15, and The Gathering Storm, Chapter 15) but his soul will survive and possess Moridin's body thanks to the bond that is born among them when their weaves of balefire connected in Shadar Logoth, at the end of A Crown of Swords. In fact, Min sees Rand and another man touching and merging. One of them lives and the other dies. This was initially supposed to be Rand's final face to face with Lews Therin Telamon, but it didn't happen this way at the end of The Gathering Storm, for Rand temporarily merged with his thousands past identities all at once, not just with Lews Therin. So, in A Memory of Light, Rand will probably sacrifice himself to reseal the Dark One's prison (shedding his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul), but he will not be able to complete his task. In dying he will be helped by Alivia (according to Min's viewing, for she is probably the only one strong enough to kill him, despite her feelings, even if there could be a different interpretation, see here), but he will be given a second chance to fix his mistakes and end the Last Battle. It is bold to say, but it could happen that it will be Moridin himself to let him be possessed by Rand, rejecting his previous theories about the impossibility for mankind to survive the war against the Shadow; in fact, several comments from Graendal suggest that, before his conversion to the Shadow, Elan Morin Tedronai (the previous name of Ishamael/Moridin) may have been much like Rand. " -- http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_yet_to_happen

    So not any really detailed or solid foreshadowing per se, but lots of Min's seeminly silly viewings (when added together and put in context) do foretell some kind of body-melding arrangement.

    I still have questions as to how and when.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  5. Ealandrelle Melyma

    Ealandrelle Melyma Aes Sedai

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    I wonder if Nakomi could somehow symbolise the world/the Earth? A sort of "Gaia"-esque figure. My only reasoning for this is the whole "May the last embrace of the Mother welcome you home", so it seems like the world is viewed as female...
     
  6. Murasaki al'Aevon

    Murasaki al'Aevon Gaidin Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb

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    Mother Earth is often female, so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

    Gaia would make sense. Especially since RJ loves to mirror real world mythology.

    I had not thought about that.
     
  7. Braydon Roque

    Braydon Roque Resident Citizen

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    Nakomi has zero relevance to the series and therefore I choose to blank her out from the books. Apparently this was a Jordan thing too so I guess he didn't flesh her out and Sanderson just stuck her in there.

    In my head this is what I choose to believe:

    The Jenn aiel died out finally due to a weave of Anti Balefire. They are the crystal column terangreal at Rhuidean. Nakomi was the channeler and the effect of the weave was long long life. Then she was supposed to do something cool or reveal something but when Jordan passed away it wasn't finished.

    My only issue with that is that we know of Rhuidean by like book 4 so there should have been notes regarding her.

    If she is the creators body then... Lame.
     
  8. Murasaki al'Aevon

    Murasaki al'Aevon Gaidin Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb

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    I like that idea with the crystals!

    Hmm.... Very interesting!
     
  9. Ty al'Djinn

    Ty al'Djinn Mod for Life Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar Forum Moderator

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    The creator thing would make sense though- after all, the phrase is "May the Mother's embrace welcome you home."
     
  10. Padron Kerenmosa

    Padron Kerenmosa Gaidin

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    You know, I have been thinking about it and I think that it may be logical that the creator will appear as a female.
    The DO is called "LORD of the grave" "great LORD of the dark" and few other names that are male by nature, so maybe the creator appears as a female to balance the DO?
     
  11. Hilwa Katir

    Hilwa Katir Aes Sedai

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    I like the "crystal idea" but I think that I agree with the " Creator being a female"..
    I wonder if Harriet is the inspiration..:)
    She does have "wings of white"..
     
  12. Sela Narian

    Sela Narian Aes Sedai

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    Looks like the Creator is conceived of as female by the mythos established. But in the end, they're both the same being (TDO & Creator). That's what the Creator said, at least. Brings us back to the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai.

    In the same way, Moridin and Rand are intertwined.
     
  13. Hilwa Katir

    Hilwa Katir Aes Sedai

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    Ahhh....that makes sense...
     
  14. Anika Forsyn

    Anika Forsyn Aes Sedai

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    The crystal idea is neat, but with Egwene's constant noting or talking about how the Earth wanted to fight back, I for one pick the Gaia or Mother Earth theory, maybe even the creator theory.
     
  15. Tazren Talamar

    Tazren Talamar Gaidin

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    I think of both of them as "it", though ... I don't think either of them cares about which sex or gender they're associated with, any further than in what way it would influence those to whom they appear.
     
  16. Darim Pelegro

    Darim Pelegro

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    Why should the Creator care what happens to the Aiel?
     
  17. Jeffan Caliarthan

    Jeffan Caliarthan Aes Sedai Director of Marketing

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    That's the only thing holding me back from believing that Nakomi is the one at the mouth of the Pit of Doom.
     
  18. Sela Narian

    Sela Narian Aes Sedai

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    The Aiel have honor. :cheese And Rand thought she might be dressed as an Aiel but he was so out of it that you couldn't get anything definitive. But they wouldn't have just mentioned this lady for no reason, with Aviendha asking...Bair, was it?...if she knows her, and Bair saying it was an ancient name and she knew no one of that name. They wouldn't have put these details in for no reason. In writing, everything has a reason.
     
  19. Murasaki al'Aevon

    Murasaki al'Aevon Gaidin Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb

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    Maybe like the Jews are to the Christian God, the Jenn Aiel are to the Creator.

    She shows herself as Jenn Aiel and cares what happens to the Aiel because... well... she chose them to be her mascots.
     
  20. Sela Narian

    Sela Narian Aes Sedai

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    LOL I'm a mascot of God! ^^