The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - The Shadow Rising)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Reread (Spoilers)' started by Ilverin Matriam, May 2, 2021.

  1. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    Woho I am done :D

    Have you noticed that this book is called the Dragon Reborn, but most of the plots were related to the other two ta'veren? Perrin and Mat have significantly bigger roles in this book (obviously needed).

    Also, while the Great Hunt timeline was super long because of the Portal Stone travel, like 6/7 months long, this one seemed super short. The girls and Mat spend 2 or 3 days in the White Tower after they return and then they get up and leave again. The longest times here are traveling with the boats down the river :p I haven't completed my article on the timeline, but it seems like the whole books takes a month or even less.
     
  2. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Some thoughts on this weeks chapters

    Chapter 49
    Juilin thinks he sees thieves on the rooftop - it's probably Aiel
    What is it with ankles?
    Nynaeve feels a storm gathering - Mother Guenna shakes her head at this
    Mat is not good at Stones, but Thom thinks he could be if he put his mind to it
    The Winespring Inn has around a dozen rooms to let - do they ever get used?
    Mat meets Comar - his luck at play
    Mat's plan to show that Comar is cheating is pretty reasonable but ta'veren weirdness comes into play and the weighted dice don't end up as they should
    The innkeeper has been dreaming of Rand, but I don't think Mat notices
    Three days pass. we don't really see anything of those three days
    Chapter 50
    Perrin reaches out to the wolves, but stops when he realises what he is doing
    He is still calling her Zarine, though Loial calls her Faile. He is wondering if she is the beautiful woman Min warned him of
    Tear is a little cooler than Illian for some reason
    Perrin has seen the scars of the smith up at Roundhill - wherever that is. I don't think Perrin has been out of the Two Rivers, so did he visit?
    Ajala gives him a hammer
    How does Moiraine identify Belal - its pretty obvious a Forsaken rules, but why him?
    Moiraine believes that Ishamael and Lanfear were the strongest of the Forsaken, and that they could sense a Ward a mile away - is any of that true?
    There is no mention of the Aiel in the Prophecies of the Dragon - Moiraine is wrong, they are the people of the Dragon, but are there other mentions she just doesn't understand - is slaying his people with the sword of peace and destroying them with the leaf about them? That didn't happen really
    Perrin decides he needs to work out how he feels about Faile - how long have they been together at this point? Can't be much more than a week
    Chapter 51
    Nynaeve sees Rand but decides it can't be him - doesn't she know about Callandoor
    She thinks his clothes are not Tairen, but doesn't think the same about his hair
    She does know that in reality, if Moiraine hadn't come, she wouldn't be able to do anything
    Rianna wants to keep mother Guenna, but Liandrin stops her - not sure if this is wise
    Liandrin channels and talks of the Great Lord of the Dark, so they are fairly obviously Black Ajah
    Joiya does not approve of bad language
    What did Liandrin do to Juilin - we soon learn it is some sort of Compulsion
    Be'lal apparently means to turn them to the Shadow
    Chapter 52
    Mat finds Mother Guenna right after - next chapter. No padding here. Again, this is so much faster paced than we see later, such as when Faile is kidnapped
    Mother Guenna mentions two of the girls had a similar accent to Mat. Either she is really good with accents, or Elayne doesn't have an Andoran accent
    Apparently the "Great Lord of the Dark" reference didn't register with mother Guenna
    Mat learns they were taken into the Stone and doesn't even pause to think if he should get them - he just announces he will
    He can feel the dice tumbling in his head - Is this the first time? The
     
  3. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    I've updated the first post with the dates for The Shadow Rising and the new shiny signature :joy We've unlocked one more picture :lol
     
  4. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    I noticed that about the dice too. I thought that was something that started with Mat after Rhuidean, but it must be linked to his ta'veren, since it starts already in this book...
     
  5. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Mat also mentioned it as more of a throw away comment - just "the dice were tumbling in his head" rather than "Suddenly, he could hear, or was it feel, dice, as though they were tumbling in his head. Was the sound really coming from inside his head, or could he hear some strange cosmic dice tumbling in the ether. This was certainly something that he hadn't experienced before"
     
  6. Hal Bahalla

    Hal Bahalla Resident Citizen

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    Starting The Shadow Rising tonight. Been looking forward to this one. There are some of my favorite parts in the series in this book if my memory is accurate.
     
  7. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    Mine too Hal! I like the pacing of the Shadow Rising, the POV characters and chapters, the knowledge that we learn of the Aiel... many many things I like about the Shadow Rising ! ^^
     
  8. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Yes, Shadow Rising is one of my favourite books as well. Both the Aiel and the fun parts of the Two Rivers storyline are in this book.

    Just finished Dragon Reborn. I love the picture of Moiraine just calmly walking towards Be'lal completely ignoring everything else around her :lol And Be'lal dismissing her right up to the moment when she balefires him out of existence! I really hope they do this confrontation justice in the TV series!
     
  9. Morgana Arakos

    Morgana Arakos Aes Sedai of the Purple Ajah Aes Sedai

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    Yes!! That Moiraine scene was so good. The Shadow Rising seems to be a lot of people's favorite, so I'm excited to jump into it.
     
  10. Hal Bahalla

    Hal Bahalla Resident Citizen

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    I liked the intro in Ch2. A very little glimpse at the impact of the changes on the normal
    people in Tear.

    An interesting set of shorts would be a look at the world from the individuals in the world. We get some of those, such as the Apple Orchard scene later in the series, but I wish we had more.
     
  11. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Thoughts on two more chapters
    Chapter 53
    Perrin almost calls Faile Faile instead of Zarine
    Perrin thought he was listening for rumours of weddings, but didn't do a good job
    Berelain apparently submitted to the High Lords - I don't think this actually happened
    Perrin tries to boss Moiraine around when he is concerned for Faile
    Moiraine thinks Be'lal might have sensed the flash of power wen the hedgehog is triggered - later Aes Sedai refuse to believe a man can sense saidar at all
    Perrin thinks he would break Lan if Lan interferes
    He still thinks of her as Zarine, but vows to start only calling her Faile
    He enters Tel'aran'rhiod to free her
    Chapter 54
    Mostly Mat chapter, this is one of my favourites, he is just excellent here
    He is taken by suprise, but still manages to take out a couple of Aiel before the overwhelm him
    Juilin thinks he did the right thing, but part of him realises this was not the case - he also apparently fauled to make the Black Ajah connection
    Rhuarc was a red shield, so apparently there are thieves among the Aiel
    Mat takes on about 10 of the Defenders on his own, though he needs Juilin's help to degeat them
    Egwene has dreamed of Mat, Rand and Perrin
    Despite being shielded, Egwene can channel in Tel'aran'rhiod - the reverse seems true of Joiya
    Here, Egewene teaches herself how to tie a weave off to maintain it
    Why does Faile keep dissapearing each time Perrin rescues her?
    Mat fights Darlin, who seems as much a monster as anyone. They are fairly evenly matched, but Mat speeds up his attack to beat him
     
  12. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    And to finish
    Chapter 55
    Rand walks into the Heart apparently unchallenged - just luck, or was there ta'veren twisting of change to allow him to get there so easily
    He STILL isn't entirely convinced he is the Dragon Reborn
    He had been dreaming of Elayne, Egwene and Nynaeve - how did that work?
    When Rand creates his own sword, it has a heron mark
    Be'lal claims that he and Lews Therin took the sport of swords and learned to kill with it
    Be'lal did think that Moiraine was trapped. She balefires him
    A shadow resolves into Ba'alzamon - what does this even mean?
    Ba'alzamon says he is going to take Rand's soul and the description suggests that if Rand didn't take Callandor, he might have pulled it out of him
    Ba'alzamon travels, but we see no gateway, so it is likely a True Power thing
    Rand does create a doorway - how is he able to follow Ba'alzamon. The description here is a little odd "Rand...twisted reality", though I suppose it is not entirely inconsistent with bending the pattern to move to points next to each other and drilling a hole through.
    Egwene feels the stone shake - why?
    When Egwene tries to shield Amico, she has to make the weave sharper, with a cutting edge like a knife - this is what Stills her. Seems Egwene did this in ignorance as we see plenty of examples of someone being shielded when holding the Power
    Egwene thinks she shielded Amico
    Nynaeve and the others are stunning ungrateful here. For me, I think this moves them from just annoying into active dislike. I'm not sure they ever get back on my good side
    They even hold him with the Power, just because they can - none of them think he is a threat, they just want to bully and intimidate him. We see Cadsuane do this to Tam much later
    Rather than taking the opportinity to escape, they go after Liandrin - reckless, but brave. This just reminds me even more of how annoying Elayne is.
    Perrin rescues Faile and calls her by her name
    Ba'alzamon tries to balefire Rand, but he deflects the weave with Callandor, splitting it - is this a Tel'aran'rhiod thing, or could it happen in the real world?
    Rand is attacked by Myrdraal and Trollocs - these aren't real, so Ba'alzamon must have created them
    Ba'alzamon does something to try and push Rand out
    There are multiple traps - did Ba'alzamon create them in advance, anticipating that he would need them, or was he making them as he went along
    Rand kills Ba'alzamon and this transports both of them to the real world somehow
    Chapter 56
    In taking the Stone, about 100 Aiel were killed and about 1000 Defenders captured or killed
    There is a Seal, but at least this one is still whole. Moiraine says they were scattered during the Breaking and lost during the Trolloc Wars
    Mat thinks he wouldn't have tried to resuce the girls if he'd known Be'lal was present, but quickly corrects himself that he'd have just tried to to it more quietly
    Moiraine has realised Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One, but none of the others did. Egwen tells them about the obscure passage Verin had her read "Pay attention, Ba'alzamon is a code name for Ishamael" and suggests this
    Berelain brings a note from Lanfear
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    I agree, the girls are very rude to Mat when he comes for them in the dungeons, and I really don't understand why... It's not just Elayne either, but Nynaeve. I think Nynaeve is annoyed that she can't get out of the situation by herself, and takes it out on Mat... But they should have thanked him after the main event was done...
     
  14. Aratouial Delafeld

    Aratouial Delafeld Novice

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    I've always thought "bubbles of evil" was not a great shorthand term, even though Moraine's initial explanation for it actually is quite interesting.

    I wish we got more than just glimpses into Rand's thought processes as he's trying to figure out what to do. I think we can assume from Egwene's and Nynaeve's extremely negative reaction to Moiraine's "go to war" plan is shared by Rand, so of course he'd be super invested in looking for alternatives. It's fun that we can piece it a bit together now from the book titles in chp 7 (Travels in the Aiel Waste, notably), but I wish we got to see even one conversation between him and Rhuarc or Gaul about what they think about the car'a'carn.

    Cool thing jumped out to me about the Black Ajah plan for Mazrim Joiya tells them about, setting up a "Rand al'Thor" to blacken his name-- Couladin basically ends up doing that, right? A lot of people end up thinking "the Dragon" is in charge of the Shaido? And Lanfear/Asmodean were a part of setting up Couladin so maybe Joiya was partly right, but just put together the snippets that she heard incorrectly? Although that probably assumes more of Lanfear-Mesaana connection than exists, if we believe Mesaana is the one controlling the Black.
     
  15. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    I'd buy it, especially since they all work together and then sabotage one another as it suits their needs.
     
  16. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    I don't think Mesaana is a power in the Tower this early.
     
  17. Cattrin al'Modrah

    Cattrin al'Modrah Formerly Narysse a'Jahar Aes Sedai

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    Jordan made such a big deal about a wreath that Faile gave Perrin (TSR Chapter 33).

    Doesn't mean anything at all until we got involved in @Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum's wedding shenanigans.

    Bain is a Maiden. Aiel. Aiel women perform the marriage proposal......by giving her chosen husband to be a bridal wreath of flowers.

    Bain is laughing because Faile has essentially proposed to Perrin!

    :giggle