The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Toral Delvar]

Ahead of this set. I'll say I really liked this set of chapters. Mat's fight with Galad and Gawyn is one of my favourite in the series, and he is now my favourite character- Actually the only PoV character I actually like.
Lanfear just gets weirder. I really don't know what she is trying to achieve here.

 

[Hal Bahalla]

I did a big “binge read” when I started this book so I’m still a few weeks ahead and waiting to continue

And I totally agree with you Toral Gaidin on Matt and the fight. I had been looking forward that scene from the beginning of the book. Matt grew to be one of my favorite, if not favorite, character by the end of my first read through. And now I’m finding that my love of him is still there in these earlier books.

My biggest complaint with him is how quickly he cut Rand off after he started channeling and later declared as Dragon. Seems slightly out of character for him as someone who is loyal to friends even when dangerous to himself. Though does line up with his hatred of all things Power related.

His storyline in TDR is probaby the only part of this book I like. Other than that, I’m finding it one of my least favorite parts of the series.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I think at the time Mat was also suffering from the dagger, which made him more suspicious and less trusting - I don't think it the entire reason, but it probably exacerbated his "wow, Rand can channel, I can't trust him" thoughts

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

I just finished it yesterday (home with COVID and had lots of reading time) and I had forgotten how much I liked this one to be honest.

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 21
We’ve seen a lot of strange things in dreams so far, but this is the first time we get any real hint of what is going on
Verin reads a line about Ba’alzamon. Basically “Ba’alzamon is a false name for Isha’mael” – how do people not realise?
Verin says that the Amyrlin believes in bringing girls on too slowly – later, Siuan apologises to the girls for forcing them
The one Dark One in multiple worlds makes no sense, and I am not going to let Verin “paradox” her way out of it
Verin knows of the task entrusted to Egwene and Nynaeve, so Siuan must have told her of the Black Ajah hunt
Chapter 22
Egwene’s raising test. It seems that these are mostly based on what the candidate thinks, so impossible things happen, but we also occasionally see them with knowledge they couldn’t otherwise have
Allana, Elaida, a White and a Yellow are present – why those. Elaida is there because she demanded.
Egwene’s first time is probably a few years in the future – the Seanchan are just arriving. She is able to Heal in this. She abandons Rand.
Sheriam says she hopes that anyone who stays is unhappy and she had no sympathy for anyone who runs away from their responsibilities – was it this kind of talk that attracted the Black Ajah
In the second Rand talks about holding the Madness at bay and then being Turned – turning is possible, though Egwene hasn’t been taught. Is holding the madness at bay also possible.
No one seems curious about who Egwene is talking about, which seems fair.
The third seems several years in the future, but Rand has just proclaimed himself
I don’t think Gyldan is real – is Beldeine based on the real Beldeine? Had Egwene met her?
Egwene thinks that opposing Elaida could start a war in the Tower – is this some sort of Foreshadowing?
Chapter 23
Sheriam delves Egwene, and says that Siuan would have seen it – Is this a different kind than Verin did in the Stedding?
Alanna explains about the Ajahs – I think this is the first real explanation we get
Siuan allows Alanna to go to Sheriam, but not for it to be known – this is very different to how Elaida later rules
Chapter 24
Else is behaving oddly – Lanfear
We see Galad and Gawyn sparring, Galad is clearly much beter
The scene where Mat fights Gawyn and Galad is one of my favourites
Galad says he wouldn’t want Egwene mad with him. I really don’t know why it was later changed to him being interested in Nynaeve
He keeps the quarterstaff – I don’t think I noticed that detail before, or wondered where it came from when he later uses it
Chapter 25
Egwene has dreams – the Whitecloak one at least is prophetic, which is the one she dismisses
She also dreams of Callandor, the Last Battle and confronting the Seanchan, she dreams of Perrin with the hawk and falcon, and wolves. Mat with his eye on a balance scale, hanging and the Seanchan. I think we actually see these all fulfilled by the time the series ends
Amico was 15 years older (in the original version, she was just a couple of years older). Joiya is 170, so her description sounds about right. Looking at the ages, they do seem pretty evenly spread out Joiya Byir (828), Asne Zeramene (837), Marillin Gemalphin (848), Chesmal Emry (863), Falion Bhoda (873), Eldrith Jhondar (884), Ispan Shefar (891), Jeaine Caide (912), Rianna Andomeran (924), Berylla Naron (933), Temaile Kinderode (943), Liandrin (964), Amico Nagoyin (967)
Elayne thinks they made an effort to hide the real pattern – Is there one?
We know the Black Ajah use some of the ter’angreal, do they ever use the one that suspends chance
Lanfear as Else comes to tell them where Liandrin’s things are – Who gathered them?
I think Lanfear uses compulsion on Egwene
Chapter 26
They find evidence pointing to Tear. An obvious trap
Chapter 27
Egwene is still focused on Galad. We don't have much time for her to realise Gawyn is the one she really loves. Or even just to speak to him. I think it's not going to happen and we're going to have to imagine a lot happensoff screen
Perrin is being protected by a wolf
She sees Rand – is she in his dream, or did he enter tel’aran’rhiod?
Egwene uses need. What was Lanfear doing there? Waiting for Egwene?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I agree, the fight between Galad, Gawyn, and Mat is one of my absolute favourite scenes too

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

chapter 26 annoys me. It is so OBVIOUSLY a trap, why do the girls feel they need to go? And why does the Amyrlin allow it? There is no reason for them to be there...

It is probably the ever present plot excuse though: ta'veren :P

 

[Merena Orithana]

Verin reads a line about Ba’alzamon. Basically “Ba’alzamon is a false name for Isha’mael” – how do people not realise?

:rofl

There are so many hints for this. However, I'm not sure - can't remember if I sussed this out the first time I read the books...

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

Galad says he wouldn’t want Egwene mad with him. I really don’t know why it was later changed to him being interested in Nynaeve

Was he? I don't remember this.

It is so OBVIOUSLY a trap

Nynaeve says as much though. They all say as much, and then they say they'll spring it.

 

[Hal Bahalla]

Yeah... everyone recognizes it as a trap. But Nynaeve and girls think they are oh so smart and can catch everyone when they spring it all by themselves.

Overconfident much...

What I wonder is if Siuan thinks the girls will succeed, or if she sees them as so expendable it doesn't matter if they do or not.

 

[Toral Delvar]

How is it Tuesday? More chapters, I need to read them!

 

[Alexr al'Petros]

Just made it through Rand's battle with Ishmael in the Stone...at the very beginning Rand describing a feeling of "tearing" and then he grabs Callandor....I wonder if this is a beginning of the merging with him and Ishmael or if this is what let's LTT in......

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 29
Spit dog? Brindle dog? What are these?
Aes Sedai might think work builds character, but once it has been built, they don’t seem fond of it
Nynaeve is still blaming Moiraine for what happened to the Emond’s field folk. At this time, ignorance is no excuse and this is just pathetic
Egwene is dumb here - its pretty obvious Siuan was just trying to get rid of Elayne
Why would there be a second gray man? Who killed it? Was this the one who took the arrow?
Nynaeve tells siuan she means to spring the trap
Siuan says Nynaeve could level a city with Callandor
Chapter 30
Mat goes gambling and wins every throw
Tar Valon seems to have a lot of taverns
Who are the men after Mat and why? Who sent them? One seems to be a Gray man. Did he kill himself in the fall, or was it just luck?
Chapter 31
Thom basically admits to killing Galldrian
He is wallowing in self pity, but Mat manages to pull him out of it – this seems ta’veren work
Chapter 32
Mat pays a lot for passage and the captain begins to suspect he is a Lord in disguise
He actually pays attention when Mallia explains how the ship hierarchy works – he thinks it is wise to know the people you are dealing with
The man recognizes Mat’s accent as Andoran, which is odd, as the Two Rivers accent is different to the rest of Andor
Mat tells Thom where he got the letter from the Amyrlin, but for some reason, Thom decides not to believe him
“This boy, he causes too much of the trouble” – Is that a Tarabon accent?
The one who escapes is a Darkfriend, so we can assume the rest are (not that there was any doubt)
Rand has started to have feelings for Elayne

 

[Elania al'Manir]

Spit dog? Brindle dog? What are these?

"Spit dog" is referring to a small dog that would run inside of a basket like a hamster wheel to turn the roasting spit over the fire. "Brindle" is a coloration meaning the dog has dark streaks or flecks.

Spoiler: Nyneave was upset she was turning the spit by hand instead of having this poor baby run to make it turn.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I'm going to have to look that up! Spin dogs seem so bizarre, how is that even possible?
JTA, I've probably read this book a dozen times before, and this is the first time that registered

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 33
We start with the Darkhound print – do we ever find out what they were doing or who controlled the pack?
Perrin has apparently been having lots of troubled dreams
During the day, he is still keeping the wolves out
Sidon had basically burned down – this ta’veren effect feels merely unlikely to me, an actual twisting of chance, not things that don’t actually happen, as we have previously seen
What killed Rand’s horse? Was this wolves? They are in awe of him, so seems unlikely, but sending Darkhounds to kill it is also strange. Or was it mauled after death?
An Aiel in a cage – Min said this would be significant for Perrin
Orban is obviously lying about the Aiel
Chapter 34
Masema is in Ghealdan, proclaiming the Dragon and causing trouble
Rumours of Rand have reached the town, as have rumours of the Seanchan, but not much more than that
Perrin is concerned that Faile was looking at him
The Whitecloaks attack when Perrin frees Gaul. He really has bad luck with them
Chapter 35
Perrin is unsure of Faile
Faile thinks every queen of Manetheren was an Aes Sedai and every king her warder. This seems unlikely
She also thinks there were even older nations in the Mountains of Mist. This also seems unlikely
Faile tells Perrin she is going to go by Faile, and that it means falcon, but he decides that this is just a coincidence, though he is trying to convince himself with this.

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

I really loved that no one seemed upset with Perrin when they had to leave suddenly because he let the man out. They kind of just said, "oh, you let him out? Cool, gotta go!"

 

[Toral Delvar]

One more set to go.
We're into the chapters were we mostly don't have anything in the Notes section of the chapter summaries, so this is a really good opportunity to expand and improve them

 

[Toral Delvar]

Not a huge amount happening I guess, but still, keeping up a decent pace. More of the Aiel- an actual conversation with them, rather than a few uncomfortable statements, so I think we get more of a feel for them than we had before. And plenty of prophetic dreams, which I always like.

Chapter 36
Perrin is happy to be on a boat because it moves so fast the wolves can’t keep up
Perrin sees Ba’alzamon, who is punishing people for not carrying out their tasks
He sees Ba’alzaom and Lanfear argue. He realizes she defied him, and thinks it strange but doesn’t manage to work out that this means Ba’alzamon is not the Dark One
He sees Myddraal and others attack Rand
Moiraine thinks there were 3 men found by the Red Ajah in the past 10 years – is this the real number?
He actually stands up to Moiraine pretty well here, though she does put a stop to it
Zarine – someone expected to be a great heartbreaker and lie on cushions. This does not seem like a name Deira Bashere would give her daughter
Rand realizes it was actually Perrin in his dream. Does this mean there were actual Myrddraal in his dream? That shouldn’t be possible
How does Rand tell the woman and her guards are Darkfriends?
Chapter 37
Egwene has been continuing to have dreams – some prophetic, others just giving hints of what is actually happening in the world. These include Perrin and the falcon and Hawk, Mat being followed by a Gray Man, Mat and an Illiminator, Min springing a trap, Whitecloaks in the Two Rivers
Egwene doesn’t think of herself as Andoran, something Elayne does not approve of
When Egwene realizes a gray man is after Mat, Elayne says it doesn’t make sense as there is nothing in the letter that could be dangerous – neither of them reach the more obvious conclusion, that as ta’veren, he is important and that is enough reason. I think we can give them the benefit of the doubt here that they didn’t realise he blew the Horn of Valar
Egwene and Nynaeve have begun disagreeing over virtually everything
Chapter 38
Elayne drops the source when they realise the aiel is a woman, Egwene does not. She does feel a kinship (Ie the woman is able to channel)
Bain and Chiad said the spoke the wedding pledge twice – did they perform the first sister ceremony twice? That seems strange. It really seems from what Chiad says “you should go to the Wise Ones and speak the words. But you are wise ones , though young. I do not know how it would be done in that case’
Egwene still thinks neither her nor Elayne can have Rand
Aviendha tells them that it is said the Aiel once served the Aes Sedai, failed them and that it might be this sin that sent them to the Waste
Nyaneve Heals Dailin – the first time she has done so intentionally I think, at least sucesffuly
Chapter 39
Aviendha says she has heard there are a couple of Wise Ones that can do what Nynaeve did – if there was, why wouldn’t they all know? Wise Ones don’t seem to keep such secrets from each other
The other Aiel are taunting Aviendha about reasons women sometimes have to give up the Spear
Elayne knows that the Aiel War was just them wanting to kill Laman. Verin had lectured about Avendoraldera, but apparently not mentioned it was the reason for the Aiel War, or if she did, Egwene missed it
Nynaeve Heals Elayne, this time without the herbs
Why did the Myrddraal want them? It apparently knew Nynaeve carried Lan’s ring
Nynaeve uses balefire
Dailin is killed. Rhuarc and Aviendha both believe Shadowman steel kills, not wounds. We see later people who survive it
Chapter 40
Mat seems to have passed the ship Elayne and co used on his way down
Thom smokes a pipe, Mat doesn’t seem to have picked up the habit yet
We meet Aludra again, and she gives Mat some fireworks as a reward for saving her from Tammuz

--
Toral Delvar
Tower Archivist
TarValon.Net

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

The thing with Rand killing the woman and guards always kind of confused me, and later made me roll my eyes when he starts reciting all the women who have died.