The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - The Great Hunt)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Reread (Spoilers)' started by Ilverin Matriam, May 2, 2021.

  1. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    And she has already channeled a lot fighting the Trollocs. I'm not saying it is because she is not talented, but I question why it takes so long once she starts. But it could be that the first round is just her Delving...
     
  2. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    I am not saying she isn't good at it, but I presume that if Moraine had an innate Talent for Healing she would have been pushed to join the Yellows.
     
  3. Satara al'Caelahn

    Satara al'Caelahn Aes Sedai Head of the White Ajah Moderator

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    Personally, I think it's a combination of things. Let's not forget that later on, to heal Mat from his connection to the ruby-hilted dagger, they need a full circle of thirteen Aes Sedai with angreal and sa'angreal and it takes more time than it would to quickly heal a cut or a broken bone.

    I think that's the case with Tam, as well, also because the wound had festered for a bit before Moiraine could get to it, and it wasn't just a normal cut to begin with.

    Then add in her exhaustion and the fact that Healing isn't her strongest gift.

    Take into consideration the biggest power-infested wound that we've seen, that being in Rand's side, that can't be healed at all despite numerous attempts.

    Makes sense to me why it took time.
     
  4. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    So, this set of chapters
    Not as much world building as the previous set. Moiraine and Lan are revealed as Aes Sedai and Warder. We get another example of peple acting on complete or incorrect information, and refusing to listen when they are shown to be wrong (one of the major reccuring themes) when Egwene insists that Rand Mat and Perrin must be fleeing with Moiraine in the middle of the night because they want adventure, rather than being pushed into it, despite this not making any sense at all.
    We do get more of the "simple village folk forced to flee with a powerful wizard" trope that was seen in several of the earlier popular fantasy series by authors such as Tolkien, Eddings and Brooks. We do diverge from this a little in this book, but it is still largely the tale of simple village folk going on a quest.
    Finally, a bit more of the "women and men don't understand each other" which we see to a somewhat annoying extent throughout the series.
    Chapter 8
    Why does Mat's father have a house in the village rahter than a farm? I thought he was a farmer, Mat talked about sheep often enough, but I don't know enough about such village economies to know if all the people living in the village would have work in the village, or if they could have fields outside where they kept their sheep/cows
    Despite seeing Moiraine Heal, no one suggests this to Rand until Thom prompts it - including Nynaeve, though she may have been too pressed for time to think of it
    A few hours earlier, Rand had thought all Aes Sedai might be Darkfriends, but he is willing to ask her for help with barely a second thought.
    "Kobal", one of the trolloc bands is reminiscent of "kobald" a mythical creature
    Although not all stories do portray Aes Sedai as Darkfriends, Rand thinks they do portray them all as villains
    Lan at least is aware the forsaken were bound at the end of the Age of Legends, so the cachetism of "Bound at the moment of creation" could just be confusing phrasing.
    What was the actual plan? It seems risky - Trollocs are not the most trustworthy, and the destruction of property could easily have led to Rand, Mat or Perrin being killed
    9
    Rand has a weird dream - are the people talking nonsense or is this the Old Tongue?
    Rand's response of "I'm not a child" when his father tries to warn him about Aes Sedai is remarkably petulant for someone who until a few hours earlier had thought that Myrddraal were 20 feet tall and that much of what he thought he knew of the world was wrong
    Moiraine claims that Manetheren was "so lovely that Ogier stonemasons came to stare in wonder" - Given what Loial later tells is, this is probably not true. Maybe she is being poetic and so can say it, or maybe she literally believes it
    She tells them "Ba'alzamon is an ancient name for the Dark One" - We soon learn this is not the case, but being fed the information like this might explain why readers don't realise what is going on
    The way the Power was used to kill at a distance seems useful
    10
    Egwene's assertion that they must be leaving because they want adventure is extremely immature
    12
    Moiraine sinks the ferry - Probably not really surprising that Aes Sedai are so often portrayed as villains
    13
    Egwene continues with the "you left to have fun" foolishness
    She unbraids her her - I don't think she has realised it yet, but she has basically rejected the Two Rivers
    Moiraine threatens to destroy the boys - I can only assume she means this literally. Again, easy to see why the stories portray Aes Sedai negatively.
    Egwene asks if the Male Aes Sedai were the ones who tried to free the Dark One and the Forsaken - it seems that there is a lot of confusion about what happened. Educated people probably realise the forsaken were Aes Sedai on the Dark One's side who were imprisoned with him, the general population might not really know what they were or when they were imprisoned
    The Two Rivers folk are scared by the idea of Darkfriends
    We see a prophecy, the fall of the stone of tear
    Not even Thom knows what Callandoor is
     
  5. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Yes, Egwene is very annoying in these chapters. I do understand why so many don't like her. Luckily, she grows up a lot. As do the boys...
     
  6. Nebka Galyn

    Nebka Galyn Knight of the Glitterati Accepted

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    these chapters are where I built my dislike of Egwene... :look
     
  7. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Director of Research and Records Historian Tower Gatekeeper

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    Is everyone caught up? :joy

    We are starting Week 3! YAY! :joy
     
  8. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    Yeah, book 1 Egwene is...ugh.

    Anyway, when they started talking about Whitecloaks in the next chapter, I had to chuckle. There's a church on my way to work that has a sign that says "WALK IN THE LIGHT."
     
  9. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Egwene gets better, but we see the same attitude frequently. There can't be such a thing as adam because they don't know how to make ter'angreal. The Aiel, Seanchan and Sea Folk can't possibly actually train people in using the Power, or know things the Aes Sedai don't among many examples
     
  10. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    Post-Wise One training Egwene is WORLDS better.
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    But the good thing I like with Egwene is how she completely immerses herself in the new cultures she meets. We see her learning from the Tinkers in just a few chapters, we definitely see it with the Aiel, and with the White Tower.
     
  12. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    You're right with that. She definitely has her moments. It's just that she's really abrasive at first. :look
     
  13. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    I got accused of not actually reading the books by someone on another forum because I used the fact that Aes Sedai don't nearly know as much as they think they do as part of the reason I think the whole

    "Women are Strong in Wind and Water, and Men are Strong in Earth and Fire"

    Thing is absolute Bunk that they think is true in the books but is never fundamentally shown and if it makes sense it makes Female Channlers as a whole kind of dumber than they need to be since the most common attacks Female channlers use are Fireballs and Making the Ground go boom boom.
     
  14. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    The way it's explained in the books is that raw power and skill are two different things. But...yeah, that still doesn't explain Aes Sedai's preference for fighting with Fire and Earth. If the "women not being as strong in Fire and Earth" thing were true, even in the raw power-vs-skill dynamic, their attacks wouldn't be as effective.

    This coming from a roleplayer who had to get around affinities for whichever of the Five Powers my characters had.

    I'm wondering if Aes Sedai just clung on to more practical weaves as the years went on, and that thinking came about.
     
  15. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    I think there is enough evidence that women are stronger in water and air than they are in earth and fire, and once we see the Asha'man, that they are better with fire and earth than air and water (one, Naeff I think is remarked upon for his strength in air/water), but what does strength mean in this context? IIRC, they thought that the men and women were equally strong, but this isn't true - men can handle significantly more of the Power than women, but what does it mean to be "stronger in fire"? or "stronger in air"? I think they hold the Power, but weave air/water etc. Is it just how easy it is for them to manipulate? Or how much?
    Can men usually make bigger fireballs than women, or does it balance out because women have better control in general? Would it even be possible to take all the power a person can hold and use it as a single weave of one of the five powers?
    That aside, the Aes Sedai assumption that men are stronger in fire/earth seems to be based more on tradition than any evidence or facts
     
  16. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    It could be true, but we never see an actual example of it.

    Egwene is remarked as "Strong in Earth" but we never really see her do anything that outstanding with it, IIRC the most impressive "Earth" based thing she did was make a Lightning Rod. Is that really Strength in Earth or does Egwene just have a talent for sniffing out Minerals.
     
  17. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    We do later see Rand comment that he rarely has to do think to do things with fire and earth (and I think Egwene thinks something similar for water/air), but is that what "strong in" means?
    We really don't know enough about how the different powers are combined - I figure a fireball is probably mostly fire, but most of the descriptions of weaves we see use several different powers. (This makes me wonder how many descriptions of a weave we have that mention what powers are used. We ought to try and have one in the library). Healing I think uses all 5, and it seems men and women are equally good (though one time we are told that in the AoL, men were better at healing some things).
    As you said, something like a fireball, which seems likely to be fire (though I could see air as well), is something the Aes Sedai do all the time - can men send larger ones? Even if we account for their overall strength?

    If "strength in earth" did mean "sense minerals", would most men be able to do it?
     
  18. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    Nyneave's uses all five, "Traditional" healing uses Air, Water and Spirit IIRC. It is one of the few weaves they actually comment on like that..the other being Lightning which is Fire + Air.
     
  19. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    I will love Moiraine-zilla after all this time. :lol
     
  20. Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

    Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum First Seasoner Aes Sedai Assistant TVT Editor

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    I took a day or two off to ADHD away for other projects, but we are now in Shadar Logoth. I wanted to tell Rand to be proud of his village anyway for all the shame he felt for marveling at Baerlon and the architecture he was seeing around them.