The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

Merena Orithana

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That is extremely helpful Toral Gaidin!

So who here thinks we should rename the redstone doorway "George"? :giggle

But it is interesting that so many different ter'angreal link into alternate worlds. I'm now wondering if all of them don't have something to do with alternate worlds, somehow....
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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The part of me that love watching archeology documentaries loves all the ancient lore in the series. :love
 

Merena Orithana

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200w.gif
 

Delara Morellin

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Not going to lie, if I could channel I would break every oath I could think of and then some to get hold of that little hedgehog ter'angreal. Power is nice and all but being able to fall asleep on demand? Gimme!
 

Ephrem Elpidius

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Not going to lie, if I could channel I would break every oath I could think of and then some to get hold of that little hedgehog ter'angreal. Power is nice and all but being able to fall asleep on demand? Gimme!


:rofl

I already sleep way to much, so I am just fine with you having that one. I want more energy actually, so if you find a ter'angreal that does that let me know! Once you do, use a little yourself, then let's go kayaking! Yeeehaa!!! but in the mean time... my pillows look awful comfy... :desk
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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:rofl :hug

@Merena Orithana I just started listening to the podcast I mentioned again, and it looks like they're on hiatus for until further notice. Not sure what happened, but it looks like they started that late last year, so I don't blame them one bit. They did mention on Twitter that they plan to come back, just not sure when. In the meantime, they did start with the Shadow Rising.
 

Hal Bahalla

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On the Portal Stone visions… the thing that I keep wondering is how no one else from the group to have gone through it mentions about Rand being the Dragon Reborn. You’d think at least one would have seen a future path of their own that included the Dragon. Uno and Masama certainly ahould have had a few include him…
 

Toral Delvar

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the remamining chapters this week were also pretty eventful
Chapter 39
Liandrin had a stableman prepare horses – is he a darkfriend? Was she going to have him killed?
Liandrn had made arrangements for Min and Elayne to “be taken care of” – I assume this means killed, but why?
Egwene accepts that she won’t marry Rand, though her reasoning seems poor to me
Chapter 40
Sul’dam are really unpleasant
Their master is obviously the Dark One.
Why is the plan to remove them to the other side of the Aryth Ocean and keep them there? Why not just kill them?
The seanchan are insane
Renna has absolutely no interest in Suroth’s master – even though this seems could be working against the Empire
Unlike Egeanin, Renna is at least willing to say the word “Aes Sedai”
All sul’dam are women. I think it obvious even at this stage that these are women capable of learning to channel
Nynaeve seems to think the sul’dam are Aes Sedai
Elayne starts with her “I’m a coward because I didn’t let them kill me idiocy”. We are going to have to put up with that every time we have to suffer her presence for the rest of the series
Chapter 41
Rand feels himself being pulled towards falme – Ta’veren
Rand has another dream with Ba’alzamon. I really don’t get what he is trying to achieve
 

Aduiavas Ida

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You need to remember that Suroth is so far above the rest of them in the Seanchan hierachy, and especially above Egwene, that they are trained to not question them.

Yeah, I like Nynaeve when she responds to Elayne feeling like a coward here. "You didn't see me hanging around to be killed" (paraphrased) Nynaeve does occasionally show that she has more experience and sense than the other girls, this is one such time. At other times, she is the stupidest of them, and Elayne shows that she knows more about the world in general. It's a trade-off :P

And yes, the Seanchan are insane.
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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Sul’dam are really unpleasant

Understatement of the Day goes to... :laugh: (As someone who has played a former damane character one-and-off for about 10 years, I'm a bit biased. :P)
 
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Hal Bahalla

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I think I forgot that Suroth was a Darkfriend sometime after this chapter on my first read through. Just so many characters to keep track of. It wasn’t until much later in the series that I picked back up on that…

it’ll be interesting to see how I read scenes and charactera differently this time now that I can reflect and include what I “know” from later in the story.

I think Verin is one where every scene ahe’s in and action she takes will have me thinking deep upon.
 

Toral Delvar

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Finish the Great Hunt this week. Overall, I liked these chapters, pretty packed, some explanations for what has been going on, a few things I didn't see coming at all - the Horn being blown for example. Egwene is clearly ready to be raised to the Accepted, Elayne not, as she hasn't channeled since she left the Tower apart from a trickle to steal some apples. Lanfear appearing at the end to talk to Min then turning to the reader and saying "hey guys, is there anything familiar about me? Do you think perhaps you might have met me under another name earlier in the book" was fun - though if she could find Rand, could any of the Forsaken?
It did get me wondering about the speed that the Novices are trained. Suian later apologises for "forcing" the supergirls, as there is a risk of burn out when doing that, though I don't think we ever see a hint of it. We know this is how Asha'man are trained, and they do have burnout, but even so, Novice training seems much slower than Windfinder, Wise One and especially Damane. The Seanchan don't care on a personal level if something happens to a damane, but it seems very unlikely they would risk something so valuable - perhaps the sul'dam learns to feel if the damane is close to their limit and prevent burn out
I've also wondered about the genetics of channelling - It is supposed to be less common in the main continent as Aes Sedai have been taking themselves out of the gene pool, but in Seanchan, all damane and sul'dam are identified, so if damane were always the child of a sul'dam, they would have noticed (similar for the Aiel) - It has to be more than a single gene (CC= spark, Cc = trainable, cc = nochance). Even so, we would expect that the sul'dam's children are damane much more frequently than in the general population, unless it is much more complicated.
 

Merena Orithana

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I think Verin is one where every scene ahe’s in and action she takes will have me thinking deep upon.
Yes - I am questioning her every move, now.

I also realize that alot of the pieces that I attributed to Moiraine were actually Verin! :eek

I'm a bit behind - will post some more discussion points/questions I have later today. :love
 

Toral Delvar

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Thoughts on the individual chapters
Chapter 42
Nynaeve thinks she couldn’t imagine leashing anyone -even Liandrin or Moiraine. Even after Liandrin trying to give her over to be a damane, she puts her with Moiraine in her “I don’t like” list – this is remarkably petty. She does think “maybe Liandrin”, but by the end of the book, thinks leashing sul’dam is justice
She sees Padan Fain and decides it couldn’t be him – Does she know he merged with Mordeth?
Elayne has been stealing. Not sure how consistent this is with her “I am the law” attitude
How did Nynaeve work out how to unfasten collars?
Egwene seems to have undergone pretty intense training – probably much more than she would have in the Tower.
Min sees things that link Egwene to Rand, Mat, Perrin and Galad. Rand is obvious, and maybe Mat, Perrin less so and I can’t think what she might see linking Egwene to Galad
How does Renna know Egwene was channeling? She decides Egwene is now Tuli
Chapter 43
Min tells them they are going to send Egwene back to Seanchan because she can find ore. Did they change the plan? When Liandrin handed her over, she told Suroth Egwene had to be removed to the other side of the Aryth Ocean
Elayne wishes Rand was there. This is really obsessive for someone she met once and set about a dozen words to
Domon recognizes the Aes Sedai ring – I think most people wouldn’t
Nynaeve takes control here, even though she doesn’t have a plan
Chapter 44
Bornhald still thinks of the Damane as Aes Sedai and that they are openly fighting for the Seanchan, despite them obviously being controlled and not Aes Sedai.
He at least acknowledges that Perrin isn’t necessarily a Darkfriend
What was the winged shape above them? Probably a raken – does this ever have any relevance?
Five ride forth – we know from prophecy four will return and from common sense that the one who doesn’t will be either Hurin or Ingtar
Why does Verin say one might feel a man channeling? Women can’t feel men channeling. “Detect” would probably be accurate though
Chapter 45
Some pretty short sections here – switching between points of views so rapidly helps confer a sense of urgency
Nynaeve does free a Damane. This one at least runs off
Rand and Co break into the Seanchan headquarters – Ingtar is right, they are overconfident
Ingtar says “by the Light, I am saved” – this is probably the first real indication of him as a Darkfriend
Ingtar chases after some soldiers and leaves Turak to Rand. Really, as the more experienced, he ought to have gone after the leader.
Turak and Rand fight – Really, against a Bladesmaster, Rand should have had no chance, even with the void. Turak is the first person Rand kills
The Seanchan servants kill themselves – I don’t thnk we see such suicide pacts again
Chapter 46
Egwene says if she was dreaming, it would be Rand and Galad rescuing her – she has not yet moved from Galad to Gawyn in her affections (and I don’t think we ever see it happen, we are just told she has realized she likes Gawyn and not Galad when they meet up much later)
Nynaeve releases Egwene with the Power – seems she hasn’t worked out how do undo the collar manually. Egwene has worked out how to remove the collar
Elayne decides, with no basis whatsoever that Rand would kill the Sul’dam. She is wrong. His whole “I can’t hurt a woman” is one of the most annoying things about his character
Egwene attacks the Seanchan, using the Power as a weapon and ruining any chance they had of sneaking out
Rand feels Egwene and the others are in danger – ta’veren effect again
Ingtar tells Rand he is a Darkfriend. He brought in the person who shot at Rand/Siuan – a gray man by the description.
In his other lives, Ingtar never sounded the horn, the Shadow always wanted more of him – did he not see Rand channel or declare himself the Dragon in any of them? Surely at least one of the soldiers with them should have experienced a life where they saw this
Chapter 47
Mat blows the Horn
There are around a hundred of them – are there tales of all 100? We hear of a dozen at most
Hawkwing claims to have fought both for and against Rand in other lives – are both of them spun out multiple times other than the ones we know?
What is going on with Ba’alzamon?
Ba’alzamon says that the ones who could save Rand are to be carried across the Aryth Ocean – I think this means Egwene and Nynaeve, but still no clue why he thinks this
Ba’alazmon tries to kill Rand, but Rand stabs him. At least Rand has noticed Ba’azamon is behaving like a man, not the DarkOne
Chapter 48
Rand has his second Heron mark
What destroyed the blade?
Egwene is now sure she can’t marry Rand
Who is the third (we of course know, but at this time, we would have had no suspicions)
Lanfear arrives. I don’t think we have any excuse for not realizing she is Selene
Byar blames Perrin. He apparently missed the Heroes of the Horn
 

Merena Orithana

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Elayne wishes Rand was there. This is really obsessive for someone she met once and set about a dozen words to

Turak and Rand fight – Really, against a Bladesmaster, Rand should have had no chance, even with the void. Turak is the first person Rand kills

100% to both of these! ...ta'veren??

Verin was kinda funny when figuring out which companions would go - well, of course the three ta'veren, and then uh you and uh you? :laugh:

Ba’alzamon says that the ones who could save Rand are to be carried across the Aryth Ocean – I think this means Egwene and Nynaeve, but still no clue why he thinks this

I think that Liandrin must have told the Dark Lord that those two were extraordinarily powerful compared to other Aes Sedai.

Also - we get the whole 'running into the fog, only to be actually doing some ridiculous magic.' I don't think we ever see this again in the books?
 

Aduiavas Ida

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First: Ugh, Byar :balefire And ugh Lanfear too, but that goes without saying :P

Nynaeve takes control because that is how she deals with anxiety. She tries to control her environment as much as she can.
I agree that Rand's skill with a sword comes very quickly, but remember that he has had months of off-screen training with perhaps the best swordsman there ever has been, Lan.

Yes, both Min and Elayne here has feelings for a man they have barely met. Min has only briefly seen him in Baerlon. She at least have the viewing as an explanation for why she behaves that way, but Elayne has only seen him for one short encounter.
 

Toral Delvar

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I might be more lenient to Min than Elayne because I like Min, but I think it does help that she knows she is supposed to fall in love with Rand and share him with other people. Plus she did almost have a conversation with him
 

Hal Bahalla

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Just finished the Hunt. It’s a good book, but the endings always feel so rushed.

Verin’s “secret” is totally put out there when Moiraine says “she didn’t send Verin”. Or at least it is clear to the reader that one or the other straight up lied. I can’t remember if Verin ever says “Moiraine sent me” to Rand, or if she said it when she first shows up and Rand is off to Portal Land.

I never fully saw the love for Rand from any of the girls. They all seem to just come out of nowhere due to “tavern magic”. Rand does seem to take time to develop those feeings, but the girls all just flip a switch and are there. I wonder if RJ just struggled to write from the female perspective well?

I agree Rand should have had the floor wiped with him by Turok. The only thing that mihht explain it is that he taps into Lewis Therin’s “skills” very deeply in that fight. I can’t remeber if it’s from a book or the Companion, but Rand’s adeptness for both the sword and flute supposedly came from LT.

And the ability of the Foresaken to “find Rand” so easily through these early books always bugged me. I mean why didn’t one of them just show up and just slaughter him. It isn’t for a few books until they are given the order to let him run free…
 
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