The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

I will never be able to unsee this now, bravo Leala Sedai

#sorrynotsorry

Yes! I still think she was using some form of compulsion on Rand and Co- there's no way they would act that ridiculous without being in an altered state. :arch

I think she was using Compulsion on some level too. There were instances of Rand thinking "she needed him" when she very clearly didn't, and he just had an attachment to her that I think was too strong for someone of Rand's personality and preconceptions of women to a woman he just met.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I'm not sure about the compulsion. His behaviour was odd, and somewhat out of character, but even Loial commented that Selene was human beauty personified - can Ogier's be compelled? And if so, would she do it to have Loial say how beautiful she was?
On the other hand, she did seem to think she could win his love, and we see later, that strong personalities look for a way out of compulsion. Maybe she was just using a light touch, but then, wouldn't she need to always keep using it?

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

Compulsion is a weave that can just be laid on someone's mind and left there, and can be used subtly. I think when she leaves, the effects are gone, but she doesn't need to be concentrating to keep the weave active. But if Rand doesn't know what's going on, and the weave is subtle enough, he might not know there's anything to fight against yet.

 

[Merena Orithana]

@Toral Delvar Gaidin - Where do we learn those facts about the history of the Tower? I don't remember which book that is in. Or is it in the encyclopedia?

 

[Laralelle Susandrea]

Almost caught up! On chapter 10 right now.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I believe they were in the "World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time", though its possible some of the people mentioned also have an entry in the Companion

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

You got this, Lara!! :fistbump

I have had a little pet theory about how Robert Jordan came up with the White Ajah anyway. It has to do with the Wizards in the Lord of the Rings, actually. Hear me out.

I admit that I don't know a lot of the lore surrounding them, so I may be wrong, but we know that they're assigned colors. Gandalf the Gray, Saruman the White (at the beginning), Radagast the Brown (could be spelling his name wrong), and I believe there are two Blues mentioned that are not part of the main narrative. I know that the White denotes the rank of the leader of the Wizards, but Saruman specifically told Gandalf that he switched sides, because it made the most logical sense to him. Logic...his color is white...

Also, Radagast has kind of foregone civilization in favor of studying nature, I believe, which sounds like a Brown Ajah thing to do, if a Brown liked that sort of thing.

I know it's a thin theory, but it's mine and I like it. :P

 

[Merena Orithana]

....so what you're really saying is.... your Ajah is the most powerful, right Leala Sedai? :rofl

I could totally see Radagast as a brown Ajah - :brown_bunny

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

:rofl Hm, that's an interesting train of logic.

 

[Merena Orithana]

I'm thinking more that Saruman and Gandalf knew more than anyone else about how the world really worked and so had much more perspective on issues and even mechanics. They also kind of hold themselves aloof to real world events in some cases. Book whites have that same drive to study the basic mechanics of things and have a high level perspective on things...
Not sure about Gray, though. I'm not sure we learn that much about either Ajah or wizard-type in the books?

I your theory - seems pretty spot on!

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

Well, this theory isn't that Saruman is the perfect example of a member of the White Ajah (I would certainly freaking hope not.) But his reasoning for switching stood out to me. So, I could see the gathering of colors here. Like, the usual primary colors, plus Green, then taking the White, Gray, and Brown, and adding purposes to them from there.

 

[Merena Orithana]

Saruman = Alviarin?

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

Except Alviarin has a much more complex character arc.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Gandalf also works hard to create peace and understanding between people, he is often a diplomat, like a Gray. We see that in the Hobbit especially...

I like your theory Leala

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

I get destracted by other articles and cannot seem to catch up :tug

chapter 15
What has burned the land? Something in this parallel world, or some memory of something that happened or will happen in the real one? It seems to be in some sort of pattern
Also, what are the whispy things streaking across the sky?
Hurin thinks that the hollow smelled like hundreds had been slaughtered there. Did that happen once?
Is this really Ba'alzamon come to visit him?
Ba'alzamon mentions the girl who tries to watch over Rand and Rand thinks of Moiraine rather than Egwene
Rand gets branded with a heron, but we don't know the significance yet

Chapter 15:
The description of the land in the place that never was is very interesting - to Rand, it looked like streaks of fire had burned the land, and then there were those wispy streaks crawling across the sky in a straight line... What could those be? Is there anything that could have caused that?
My first thought were the wispy streaks were airplane trails, but that probably wouldn't be it... :what

We first hear Loial's treesong in this chapter. Interesting that Rand feels that the song is so familiar to him. Could this be a reference to his Aiel ancestry? Or part of Lews' memories?

Rand also practices his sword forms while he is in the parallel world.

When Ba'alzamon visits Rand, Rand knows who he is, he also calls him "father of lies", and then they go into a dialogue about how Ba'alzamon always lies about everything. Then Rand.....conveniently forgets this and still thinks he is the DO and that he/Lews is doomed to fail....:facepalm (I, as the reader, also forgot this, so maybe Rand isn't so bad, )
(in other news, Ba'alzamon's name is too long, and I think I'm going to call him Ballzy from here on out )
Also - Ballzy also says "Serve me. Serve Shai'tan, or be destroyed forever!" :shifty Foreshadowing that Ballzy is not Shai'tan.
It is also Ballzy that causes Rand's hand to have the heron mark - I wonder if he knew what he was doing when that happened? I keep going back and forth about how much Ballzy/Ishy actually knew and how much he just guessed at and then lied about afterwards...

I was also wondering about the burned marks, is there a fire breathing animal / creature of the dark created in that world maybe? (a Dragon if you will )
And that's why supposedly the Shadow won agains Hawkwing. The same theory stands for the sky lines too

I think Hurin smelling the hundrends slaughtered was the pile of villagers that Fain left. They move faster in this world, so it could be that they were just at the place corresponding to the big pile of bodies in the real world. Or, like later Selene supposed, Hurin sniffs "ahead" of the bad things happening.

So, how did Ba'alzamon reach Rand's mind in this paralell world? Why is this possible? Or is he also in the world? Did they plan this together with Lanfear?
But I agree with Merena here, there are phrases that Ba'alzamon uses that basically make it obvious he is not the Dark One for realz, so it's weird that Rand doesn't notice it. At the same time though, he is probably scared, so doesn't catch slips like that.

 

[Merena Orithana]

So, how did Ba'alzamon reach Rand's mind in this paralell world? Why is this possible? Or is he also in the world? Did they plan this together with Lanfear?

Do you think that it was alternative world Ballzy?

Or maybe Rand already had a connection with him even before the

Spoiler

cleansing of saidin?

 

[Hal Bahalla]

how did Ba'alzamon reach Rand's mind in this paralell world? Why is this possible?

Rand hasn’t learned to shield his dreams yet at this point. And it is made clear later that once someone touches your dreams it becomes easier. Maybe there is just one Dream World, so the fact that Rand is in a parallel world is irrelevant.

This does lead to the question how the connection was made of Rand wasn’t sleeping?

 

[Hal Bahalla]

Something I never fully understood was why they had Nynaeve jump straight to Accepted?

Certainly it was good for her, but she didnt seem to actually meet the qualifications for being raised other than pure strength. Which seems like an uncharacteristic decision by the Aes Sedai.

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

It's interesting that you mention this Hal, since I was reading in the Companion about strength in the One Power.

"Women sometimes reached their peak strength and remained novices because they had not learned enough or gained sufficient skill, while others were raised Accepted or even Aes Sedai while still short of that peak. It was learning and skill, not strength, that were the keys there. Again, this was not a hard and fast rule; some women took as long as fifteen years to achieve full strength, while a few managed it in as little as seven or eight."

So, even though Nynaeve is strong, she is as inexperienced and unknowledgeable as Egwene and it's even harder for her to learn, since she has a block and seems to not be interested in learning anyway

 

[Toral Delvar]

We don't see anyone else moved straight to Accepted, including the overage novices, so it is a little strange, however we do see the level of control, and ability to copy weaves are well above Novice level, if she is actually able to channel.