The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - The Fires of Heaven)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Reread (Spoilers)' started by Ilverin Matriam, May 2, 2021.

  1. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    We begin to see Perrin develop into a leader here. He doesn't actually do or say much, but is clearly frustrated by the Two Rivers folk not standing up for themselves.
    Chapter 31
    Perrin demands answers of the two Aes Sedai - he in not defferential at all
    The Whites have a plan for women to have children with gentled men to try and increase the numbers of women who can channel. It doesn't seem to occur to them this is as likely to produce men who can channel or that they could just try harder to find girls
    Alanna and Verin found four girls who could channel or learn in Watch Hill
    Alanna says she is not quite so lost to custom as to bond a man against his will
    Perrin says he hasn't seen any sign of being ta'veren, Tam points out he is travelling with an Ogier and Aiel
    Bornhald kows that most people they arrest as Darkfriends are probably not, but that real Darkfriends will probably be caught up with the other undesirables
    The Shadow sent a Gray Man after Fain
    Bornhald is obsessed with Perrin
    Fain makes some sort of agreement with a captured Myrddraal - how does he expect to enforce it. I don't think this is a madness thing, he actually has some way
    Chapter 32
    Perrin catches Faile in another inconsistency about her father, but doesn't push it, thinking perhaps she is lying
    Perrin had once dreamed of marrying Laila Dearne and she had returned the feeling somewhat
    Perrin is jealous of Wil al'Seen. He tries and fails not to show it
    The Two Rivers folk don't know who Tomas is, and the boy who suggests Warder is laughed down
    Everyone takes Faile nobly born
     
  2. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Mat and Rand just entered Rhuidean.
    First, Mat keeps thinking about treasure in the buildings... Did Shadar Logoth teach him NOTHING? Aside from that, does he think the Aiel would let him keep any of it? :facepalm

    Rand already noticed the two ter'angreal that links to the Choedan Kal...

    And of course Mat runs straight into the other doorway ter'angreal, without considering that this may be different. He is lucky he asked for the things he did, and lucky Rand got there when he went out. But that is a strange thing though... How long did Mat spend inside there? We know it takes 7 days for them to return outside, but does that time start running differently the moment they enter Rhuidean, or is it time inside the coloumns and rings that take time? There is no way Mat would survive hanging there for 7 days though, so I think it will have to be the first option, that Rhuidean itself is skewing the time. That will also be gone by the end of this book though :(
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Ok, I may spam this thread a lot as I go through the scenes in Rhuidean, sorry in advance :look

    Scene 1: Outside Rhuidean: How old are those Aes Sedai? I don't think they can be from the Age of Legends. We hear Mandein talk about defeating the men in shining armour. I suspect that is Arthur Hawkwings armies. That means this is about 1000 years before Rand's time. But that is about 2000 years after the Age of Legends. Sure, the Aes Sedai are old, but surely not 2000 years old?

    Scene 2: Probably a long timejump, as this is only a few generations after the Breaking. Way before the Trolloc Wars surely. We see the "sharing of the water", the only time a people freely shared the water resources they had with the Aiel. We see that the Jenn Aiel go where they want to, probably guided by the Aes Sedai they have with them, and the Aiel follow and protect them. Already we see that the Aiel doesn't know their own history, they don't know why the Jenn move, or how they have "failed" the Aes Sedai. These Aes Sedai may be from the Age of Legends, or at least remembers who the Aiel used ot be.
     
  4. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    The men in iron suits are not Artur Hawkings armies
    This is a few generations after the breaking
    Charn - 25 years old, the day the bore is drilled
    Unknown child- no vision
    Unknown grandchild- no vision
    Coumin - Young man, day the bore was sealed or within a couple of days - about 110 years after the bore
    Jonai - Coumin's son, during the breaking, when the last cities are being destroyed. Adan is 10 here
    Adan - Jonai's son, as a young man in his first vision, an older one in his second
    Marin, Adan's son - no vision
    Lewin - Marin's son. 6 in Adan's second vision where the Tua'athon split, a young man in his vision where he kills for the first time, If Adan is an old man, 50-70 years since the vision with Jonai.
    Jeordam, Lewin's son, 18 in his vision, thinking he keeps to the Way because he doesn't hold a sword
    Unknown child - no vision
    Rhodric - the sharing of the water, just before they entered the waste. He was 20 hear and Jeordam an old man
    Rhodric's son - no vision
    Rhodric's grandson - no vision
    Rhodric's great grandson - no vision
    Mandein - Rhodric's great great grandson - perhaps 150 years after they enter the waste
    I think the sequence from Jonai being given charge of the objects of the power, to Mandein and the Aiel having forgotten their history is probably 250-400 years
     
  5. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    It's established later that the Oaths decrease an Aes Sedai life expectancy, and I think this was pre-oath. Do we ever find out how long people who can channel live?
     
  6. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    I think (maybe the companion) says around 900 for women and 700 for men. non Channelers managed about 150 years
    At the maximum, the whole thing is going to be about 500 years, but with little medicine or Aes Sedai Healing, I think 300 more reasonable
     
  7. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    Scene 3: It seems Jeordam is one of the first who has only ever lived among the Aiel, not coming from the Jenn. He does not know about the trees, or the task the Jenn has. He discovers, almost by accident, that a shorter spear is much more efficient, though not as good for blocking. This will eventually be the standard Aiel weapons, a short spear and a buckler. Morin can also be seen as the first "Maiden of the Spear", though there doesn't seem to be ane warrior societies yet, but there is different clans. Lewin is an old man here, and Jeordam has never seen him smile. We learn why in the next scene.

    Scene 4:
    Lewin and a few friends tries to sneak in and rescue some female family members. What have the men done to them, for the girls to be so unresponsive? Is it just shock, or have they been raped or assaulted? It can't be the Power, since they are all men...
    Lewin kills the man by accident, and is horrified. He and his friends take the spears, but not the sword, since the sword can only be used for killing, not hunting. I can see the logic of that argument, though it seems like a way to justify what has been done after the fact.
    Anyway, when they return, they don't get any thanks, only condemnation for what they have done in killing men. Adan is especially furious, despite it being his granddaughter that was rescued. That is probably because Adan still remembers a time when the Aiel was safe and followed the Way. Plus, as we will see in coming scenes, he has some very strong reasons for keeping the Way.
    Here we also see why the Aiel veil their faces before killing. :cry The end of scene is heartwrenching for me :(

    Scene 5:
    Adan has just witnessed his wife and son being killed, and his daughter is being taken. He protects Lewin and Maigran, afraid that if he tries to do anything else, they might get hurt too.
    We see that some of the Aiel are sick of hauling the stuff the Aes Sedai gave them (first mention of those I think) and wants to abandon them to find a place of safety and find the songs again. This splinter group will eventually become the Tuatha'an, the Tinkers, and ironically, they are the ones that will keep the Way of the Leaf, the Covenant.

    Scene 6: Jonai feels lost after his wife, who was a Dreamer, has died. He doesn't know where to go. They meet Ogier, and the Ogier can no longer find the Stedding. This is where we see the beginning of the Longing in the Ogier. We learn that Ishamael may not be completely locked in the Bore (though we kind of knew that already) and that the Blight is expanding in the north, and that not all Trollocs and Myrdraal are dead.
    Jonai dies, and with his dying breath he tells Adan to keep the Way and take the people east. No wonder Adan values keeping the Way more than anything else! It was literally the last thing his father told him!

    Scene 7: Jonai as a younger man, in Paaran Disen. He is only 67, at the prime of his life :p
    Anyway, he enters the Hall of the Servants, and we get a few delightful hints from the conversation the Aes Sedai are having. Someshta gets his task, to guard the Eye of the World (which these Aes Sedai will die to create) and Jonai and the other Aiel are given the task of keeping some chora trees and angreal safe. We as readers realize that this is mostly an excuse to get the Aiel to flee to safety, which is heartwrenching when we know how much Aran especially value those things the Aes Sedai didn't really care about. To quote Solinda Sedai: "I want to save something from this town, and that something is YOU." Not the things, but the Aiel. Jonai doesn't realize this. We also hear that Jonai's father, Coumin, has taken up a weapon, and either killed someone with it, or killed himself with it, we don't really get the details. But he may be the first Aiel to break the Covenant.
    We also hear the term "people of the Dragon" But does Jonai think it is a lie, that it was something that was said, but it was not true, since the Aiel served all Aes Sedai, not just the Dragon, or is the meaning something different?
    Then we get the story of the large group of Aiel, singing to one of the mad male Aes Sedai, keeping on singing as he killed them! :cry THIS is the scene that I cry hearing about EVERY TIME. :cry It shows the bravery that exist in all Aiel, that they will keep throughout their history.
    The last Aiel sang to him ALONE for over TWO HOURS before the man killed him! Sure, running probably wouldn't have done much at that point, but STILL!

    Scene 8: Coumin is proud that he is finally allowed to be part of the seed singing. We have this beautiful scene where we see the Nym, Someshta, use the song of the Aiel and make plants grow. The cadin'sor is used as practical work clothes, not as a garb of war.
    Then we get the news that the Bore has been sealed, and they think the war is over. People are celebrating. But Coumin's father Charn ends up being hanged by angry men, because of his stories of serving one of the Forsaken before the War. This is incomprehensible for Coumin, why would anyone harm an Aiel? This may explain why he later abandons the Way :cry

    Scene 9: Charn as a young man. He did in fact serve Mierin Sedai, who later becomes Lanfear. He is happy, since he is getting married. Already here we see that it is the woman who asks a man to marry her. He is tripped over by another person, and we see that Aiel are respected people, and that other citizens show utter respect to them. This will change within two generations :(
    Then, utter chaos ensues. Charn knew that Mierin was trying to tap into a new source of Power, one that both men and women could use. We actually see the hole in the Dark Ones prison being opened! This gives me goosebumps every time!
    That also means that ALL OF THIS IS LANFEARS FAULT! :p I doubt she knew what she was getting into though...
     
  8. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Chapter 33
    I liked this chapter - Perrin getting annoyed and talking sense into people
    Is Chiendalna a real place? I suppose it says something of the isolation of the Two Rivers that he feels confident using his real name
    Perrin is jealous of Luc as well. Given how irritating Faile's jealousy is, this is a little amusing
    How many trollocs are there - enough to case trouble, but not enough that they can't just wipe out all the isolated farms?
    Perrin moves his people - his words make sense, but it happens because he is ta'veren. As usual, he doesn't believe it.
    Around this time, Faile begins to annoy me. The whole "Will you forgive me, but I'll be annoyed if you say yes, maybe i'll think about forgiving you" thing
    As well as persuading them to gather, he also persuaded the young men to oppose the trollocs, without even implying that they should
    Bain and Chiad are still with Faile rather than Perrin, but Chiad forgets and tells Gaul she might have to go rescue him if he gets caught
    Perrin is thinking of Tam and Abell by their names - did he do this earlier? The first few times he thinks of the Luhans, it is master and mistress, but as he brings them out, it is Haral and Alsbet, though he does switch back
    The Whitecloaks guards seem mostly useless
    He decides to hunt trollocs
    Chapter 34
    Couladin attacks Rand without even veiling. Bair is appalled , even though she knows the veiling requirement os a remnant of the Way of the Leaf
    Bair knew that Rand would have the tattoos on both arms
    Egwene tries to explain about how not all Aes Sedai have the same talents, irritating Rand. He words are perfectly reasonable, so without hearing, it's hard to know if she was really speaking to him as an ignorant foolish child, or if he just didn't like it that she was educating him. Both are plausible
    Melaine thinks if Lan would have followed Moiraine it would likely have killed them both - is this something they knew from dreams, or just an assumption?
    She does get right back to being irritating when Rand says he means to change what is permitted
    Rand thinks the future of the world is set in the shoulders of three farmboys, so he at least realises it is important that all three are ta'veren
    Mat manages to charm the Wise Ones
    Amys tells Rand of his mother - obviously Tigraine
    Janduin sounds like he might have been ta'veren. He was killed by Luc
    Melaine thinks no man can go to Rhuidean twice and live - Rand later shows this wrong
    Aviendha seems to hate Rand - he is mistaken about why (knowing the Aiel history wouldn't really explain it anyway)
    Chapter 35
    Egwene tells Elayne the story of Rand's parents. Does she cut out the bit about Gitara Moroso and the man who killed Janduin? Gitara Moroso should probably have been familiar to Elayne, but I can let her off for not figuring things out here
    Egwene is extremely childish in her interaction with Amys. I'd thought maybe being damane had made her grow up a little, but apparently not
    Bair says that they failed the Aes Sedai and perhaps are meant to serve again
    Aviendha does say she hates Rand - we don't find out why for a while, but I think the clues are there in her interactions with him
     
  9. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Chapter 36
    Rand thinks Aviendha is in skirts because she is spying on him. the factshe changed after going to Rhuidean and he heard the whole conversation about her running away from her responsibilities.
    Aviendha insists Elayne is the woman for Rand - again, refusing to look beyond her culture
    Rand starts to miss Min as she never made him feel like an idiot. Which is kind of interesting as I think she is by far the most intelligent of the four
    Mat refused Healing from Moiraine - this time at least she gave him a choice
    Heirn is annoyed when Mat asks about the Tua'athon, Aviendha glares at him and Rand tells Mat not to mention them as they are a touchy subject,ou but neither Heirn nor Aviendha know why - only Wise Ones and Clan Chiefs have this knowledge
    Rhuarc asks Couladin if he has become a Clan Chief when he did not see. Of course he hasn't, but he does later gain the tattoos without Rhuarc seeing
    Does Lanfear disguise her voice as Keille or does she just expect Rand not to think she would disguise herself like that?
    Aviendha insists that not allowing Couladin to act as clan chief isn't a think of ji'e'toh. Just general honorourble behaviour I guess. She thinks Rand a fool for not knowing this, though she surely knows better than that
    Rand says that with the arrival of the Peddlers, something has begun - what?
    Chapter 37
    Rand thinks Egwene is the one he can trust, but isn't sure
    What did the Trollocs want at Imre Stand? How did they get there?
    Kadere implies he has knowledge Rand would want - what?
    Rand practices the sword forms with Lan to avoid Aviendha
    Aviendha asks if Rand is meant to bind the Aiel together and return them to old glories, so it is clear she didn't go through the columns
    The Aiel aren't interested in pots - they feel their smiths do better work
    Mat has realised that the holes in his mind are filled with battles and other things
    After the meal, Rhuarc and Heirn take up their pipes, but there is no mention of Rand or Mat doing so
    Natael isn't as good a performer as Thom
    When attacked, the memories help Mat - apparently some of the people in them had used a similar weapon
    Egwene assumes Rand is doing something to upset Aviendha and tells him to stop it. It's interesting how quickly her loyalties have shifted
    Chapter 38
    Gelb has found his way to Tanchico and is working for Egeanin
    Egeanin was willing to kill Leilwin to protect herself, but decided selling her off into slavery for someone else to do whatver they wished with her was better
    Carridin is also there - up to no good no doubt
    We learn a little of the politics of Tarabon here
    Carridin wonders which band of Dragonsworn shelters Rand, so presumably news of him taking the Stone has not reached Tarabon yet
    Liandrin reveals herself and tells him she was also at the Darkfriend Social
    Carridin mentions Andric possibly stripping soldiers from the Ring forts - what are they?
    She had used her weak form of compulsion to gain access, but murders the guard anyway - with a knife, she isn't able to kill with the power, at least not in a subtle manner
    There is something that can control Rand, but the Black Ajah group don't know what it is
    There have been sul'dam deserters
    How was Bethamin collared - did Egeanin do it as a test after learning or Renna and Seta? Does Egeanin know of them? Suroth has ordered all the sul'dam left behind killed
     
  10. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

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    I am also confused how the Shadowspawn gets into the waste. We don't have a map, but surely Rhuidean is quite far away from the Blight? We know now that Shadowspawn can't Travel... Is there a Waygate in the Waste? Or another Portal Stone?
     
  11. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    I got a little behind, so to finish. We see Perrin grow more into his leadership role
    Chapter 39
    Thom and Juilin think Nynaeve and Elayne are not competent to seek the Black Ajah. They are right
    Every time Elayne has got close to uncovering Thom's history, he has said something to send her off in a tantrum
    They bump into Domon -simple chance I think, not ta'veren work
    Nynaeve runs into Birgitte and then Isam, who tries to kill her, in Tel'aran'rhiod
    Juilin and Thom get competetive about who will find the Black Ajah first. Really, this kind of childishness is dissapointing from them
    Chapter 40
    Perrin suspects Luc, but Faile things he couldn't be a Darkfriend
    Wil is still not fully on "Team Perrin"
    They hunt trollocs and walk into a trap - likely Luc did something, as the Aiel would not be fooled by Trollocs
    Perrin kills several trollocs, then a Myrdraal. He doesn't hesitate. Twenty seven men are killed
    Ihvon brings them out
    Chapter 41
    Bain and Chiad are appalled at spending any time with the Tua'athon. I don't think they know why
    Faile has a brother two years younger than him
    Faile finally tells Perrin who she is
    Chapter 42
    In Tel'aran'rhiod, Perrin has a hammer by defauly, but forces it to change to an axe
    Perrin surveys the Two Rivers - maybe one in five houses are still occupied
    The Waygate has been unlocked
    Perrin thinks Lan is the last living Malkieri - I guess he didn't really pay attention when Moiraine told him of Lan's history
    Slayer tells him that the Trollocs were there for Fain, not him
    Gaul wants to be angry that Chiad wanted to play Maiden's Kiss, but doesn't quite manage it
     
  12. Laralelle Susandrea

    Laralelle Susandrea Aes Sedai

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    Crap! I got behind again... :grumble
     
  13. Melina Tashir

    Melina Tashir Aes Sedai

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    Quick backtrack to the Aiel history... So the Wheel keeps turning - at some point it will turn again to the point where the Aiel have sworn to follow the Covenant and not do violence. Now my question/theory... Bear with me it's a bit of a jumble in my head and I am not sure how to put it forward...

    They become Aiel by following the way of the leaf. But who were they before? Just normal people? A person comes up to Aes Sedai says they will keep the Covenant, and they become Aiel.

    Or is it that as time passed, since the Dark One was imprisoned, and once the Age of Legends started, and there was no more fighting or wars (before they drilled into the Dark Ones prison) there was no more need for Aiel and their warriors. Would the Aes Sedai have said that in order to keep the peace and advance the world those Aiel should lay down their weapons and dedicate themselves to the Covenant. Because that would be quite an impact, if they who are so violent and live by the spear and die by the spear, give all that up to maintain the Way of Leaf. it would be very impressive. And then as generations pass they forgot where they came from...

    I know random and a bit stupid but I always really loved the Aiel history stuff and each time I read it I keep thinking what would have made them start following the way of the leaf... And the whole Wheel of Time turning and things happening again and again...
     
  14. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    I don't know - can a person become Daishan Aiel, or is it inherited? We see it is passed down family lines, but don't really have any indication about whether anyone can join
    I think the age where the Aes Sedai are served by the Aiel is so far in the future, that the people doing it probably have nothing to do with the current Aiel
     
  15. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Chapter 43
    Not much happens here, Perrin just sits around being injured
    Elam talks about how Luc claims he would rightfully be king of Andor - he doesn't know he is in Andor. Also, I guess the story of Luc and Tigraine is not well known enough for Verin or Alanna to get suspicious
    Ewin asks if he can still call Perrin by his name - this is the first time I think we see people are thinking of him differently
    Chapter 44
    We see Perrin lead his first successful battle, though in reality, he does very little
    Gaul and Loial go off to close the Waygate
    What are Alanna and Verin up to - Perrin is right that they could have imposed some order
    It seems Tam has mostly organised the defences
    The number of trollocs was not enough to break through - it was a strange sort of test
    Chapter 46
    The Congars and Coplins all seem willing to refuse the Tuatha'an. Daise even threatens to bring the village council into it, but Perrin shames them and they relent - denying they ever considered it
    Perrin also starts mediating and giving orders and people start coming to him asking him to solve their problems
    Aram picks up a sword - Min's vision, though Im not sure it was particularly significant to Perrin
    Ila calls Aram Lost
    The Whitecloaks enter the villlage. Taren Ferry has been wiped out, Luc seems surprised and seeks to blame Fain - is this a diversion, or was Fain really responsible?
    Bornhald tries to arrest Perrin, even Byar knows this is foolishness. Bornhald is convinced the Seanchan are not real
    Perrin suggests Bornhald waits until the trollocs are dealt with and that if they stay in Emmonds Field, they would be welcome to help with the defences. Bran also imposes conditions, but neither of them insist the Whitecloaks help
     
  16. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai

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    It's two weeks later, but yesterday I read an article about strength in the One Power and aging. These charts are extrapolations based on explicit power level/life expectancy correlations from RJ. This is without any Oaths, and as these are averages, "a very few" channelers would actually live to see 900 years old.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Edit: As you can see when I stack the two charts on top of each other, a man and a woman who have the same raw power level (adjusted for the different maximum and minimum of Saidar vs Saidin), the woman will live longer. The strongest man and the strongest woman have the same life potential, but the strongest woman has the raw strength of a 7 on the Saidin chart.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  17. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    One of the Aiel people thought he was in the prime of life at 67, suggesting life expectancy of likely 125-150 years, so it does seem that the very low levels of strength would be getting negligible life extension
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  18. Chiema Purvene'Caba

    Chiema Purvene'Caba Citizen

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    Hi, I’m not re-reading, and are a little behind (chapter 38), but if I manage to catch up in time for when you start up with book five, I would love to join you:-)
    (I love the sig btw:love)
     
  19. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Thess chapters are also kind of slow - a lot of setting up what is to come, and some background information. With the exception of the chapter where Siuan is deposed of course
    Chapter 46
    Despite being what I consider a terrible person, Egeanin has sympathy for the refugees and thinks their leaders should not have failed them
    Egeanin is strying to find other escaped sul'dam as she wants to find out if Bethamin is an exception, or if others can be held by an Adam. If we saw why she learned about Bethamin, I missed it
    Nynaeve, posing as a Taraboner wasn't able to bring herself to cut her hair, so her braids are very long - almost waist length
    Nynaeve apparently thinks the dresses they are wearing blend in - in fact, they were one of the reasons they stood out to Egeanin
    How far away can someone sense another person channeling? I don't think we ever get much of an answer
    They don't recognised Egeanin's accent - they probably didn't spend enough time around Seanchan
    When they meet her and she sees they can channel, they tell her she need not be afraid of them and she says she hadn't thought she should be. Despite much of Seanchan culture being based on the idea that women who can channel are dangerous
    She is shocked to learn they are Aes Sedai, and that they are not what she expected
    They both believe that they were the one Gelb was trying to kidnap - Nynaeve is right.
    Moghedien meets them and uses compulsion - the first time we see it for real, rather than the drabs Liandrin can use. Nynaeve tells her she is frightened of the Power.
    Moghedien does not phrase her questions well, so does not get as much informaition as she could
    She thinks she can't put them off the hunt as Compulsion is too limited
    Chapter 47
    Siuan reads through reports of the world, including that Masema is now speaking to crowds of up to 10000 people
    She has told the Hall that Rand has drawn Callandoor and they seemed to be going along with her plans
    The women who burst into her room are not Sitters - how were they chosen?
    She claims there has never been a rebellion inside the Tower - I'm pretty sure this isn't true. IIRC, we even learn of a time when there were two separate Halls.
    Siuan and Leane are stilled - this was one of Min's viewings. What was Leane charged with?
    Min claims that all the Blues left and that there are not many Greens left in the Tower
    The charges posted against Suian and Leane include that they arranged Mazrim Taim's escape - something so obviously without evidence I wonder how it passed.
    When they meet Gawyn, Siuan tells him to strike off her head if he believes her a Darkfriend. He probably would have done if Min hadn't intervened. I think the main reason he sided with Elaida was because of what Siuan did with Egwene and Elayne, and that this probably tipped the balance. If he had gone the other way, Siuan might still hav been Amyrlin. She paid the price for her scheming and manipulation
    Gawyn killed Coumin and Hammar for siding with Siuan, but then lets them go
    He gives them a note allowing them to leave - apparently not concerned that this might get back to him, and they collect Logain to go with them
    Min has a viewing of Gawyn, either kneeling at Egwene's feet or breaking her neck, as though either could be the future and feels she has turned him towards those two possibilitites. I dont think we ever see any hint that he might have turned against her though
    Chapter 48
    Rand now knows that Aviendha did not go through the columns so is confused about why she hates him
    She is frustrated that the strange Aiel customs are not something that are intuitively obvious to him
    He has started dreaming of her, as well as Min and Elayne
    There are lions in the waste. I'm a little surprised, I wouldn't have thought there was enough of an ecosystem to support predators the size of lions
    Egwene is allowed to stop wearing her hair as a child
    Kadere offers to sell Rand knowledge in exchange for protection against repurcussions
    Mat sets his sights on Isendre, who neither encourages nor discourages him. Rand doesn't warn Mat off strongly.
    They take 12 days to get to Cold Rocks Hold
    Chapter 49
    Mat mentions the Tora Harad as a place that was defensible. We don't learn what it was
    Rand sees a fowl he doesn't know - large and speckled grey. A goose? I think we have seen geese, so something else?
    Cold rocks hold seems to be the size of a fair sized town - so probably a population of a few thousand at least
    There is a big difference between "Roofmistress, I ask leave to come before your roof" and "I ask leave to enter your hold roofmistress". Rand accidentally says the first thing
    Rand warns him of Couladin, but Rand thinks Couladin is not the one he needs to worry about
    Lian won't take a gift from Moiraine and thinks having her with them is a great honour
    Rand thinks that if he gives her a gift it might help her be more pleasant
    Mat now has his own pipe
     
  20. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe

    Joined:
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    Yeah, Moghedien in chapter 46 is not as clever as she thinks. And it seems Elayne is fighting the Compulsion to answer correctly subconsciously, though she isn't aware of it.
    Egeanin is another one of those very interesting character Jordan creates. She has no trouble with Seanchan customs, yet, but she also aren't afraid to be in contact with Aes Sedai, and later we see her distance herself from Seanchan completely, though that is because she herself is threatened.

    Chapter 47 was a real surprise the first time I read it. I didn't see that coming AT ALL! I already didn't like Elaida, this did not help :p I also wondered why they stilled Leane as well, but I think Elaida wanted to remove another person who was close to Siuan. You see she goes straight after Moiraine as well.
    Gawyn sided with Elaida, and I'm not really surprised. She is familiar to him, and he is very frustrated that he doesn't know where Elayne is. But we see that he thinks with his emotions, as he is willing to let Siuan go since she is with Min. He is not a planner at all, and I don't think he would have made a very good First Prince of the Swords for Elayne, if he had ever actually done that job... He is much to emotional and thinks that everything can be solved with a sword :tug