The Way of Kings: Re-read

Discussion in 'Brandon Sanderson' started by Arecias Dezell, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. Taika Vinh

    Taika Vinh Aes Sedai

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    Oh, it was called truthspren. That (too) escaped me. :p (Like the Szeth info too :look)

    It sounds interesting that people can have KR abilities without the spren. Do you think the ones that aren't teamed with a spren remain somewhat less? They won't become "full" Radiants?
     
  2. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    When you put it that way, that makes sense. The reason I wasn't sure it was the scene of her father's death was because she asks, "what's wrong with me?" And to me, if you're subconsciously drawing the scene of your father's death, whom YOU killed, it seems rather obvious what's wrong with you. But if you're instead drawing some random death scene that you know nothing about, "what's wrong with me" seems like a legitimate question.

    The point about the spren and KR ability is really interesting and something I never noticed/made the connection to before. That's awesome.

    And yes, now that you mention it, I do remember realizing Elhokar could see the truth spren (but I haven't gotten there yet in this read through).

    Oh, one other thing I wanted to talk about. The big scary face that Kaladin sees when he's tied up in the high storm. Do you guys thing that's one of the Shards? Not sure how much you all have read about the cosmere, but each world has a 1-3 of the 16 Shards. For example, in the mistborn world, they have Harmony and Ruin. I can't remember off the top of my head what Roshar has. Maybe Honor and... meh. I can look it up later.

    But also, I think the high storms are controlled by that face -- that's what MAKES them high storms (and it's obviously also what infuses the spheres and gives the high storms their energy).
     
  3. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    I hadn't heard about the 16 shards, and I was curious so I looked it up and found this:

    Pretty interesting, it looks like Hate and Honor are the two shards in this series. It looks like Cultivation is the harmony between the two? Just as Harmony is between Preservation and Ruin.

    I thought the the face in the storm was the Stormfather, but I haven't thought to much more on it. Does he purposely infuse the spheres, and for what reason(s)?

    Heres the link to the quote above:
    http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/491-cosmere-101/
     
  4. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    Oh right, preservation and ruin = harmony.

    I read the scene where kaladin rides the storm. Someone talks to him, calling him the child of honor, and tells him to beware of Odium (obv hate). I thought at first it was honor talking to him, but now I think you're right, it's the storm father (who is also the face). But who or what is the storm father? I thought all the gods in the cosmere were the 16 shards. Is he another powerful spren, like the nightwatcher?

    Also, unrelated, I love all the passages about the nature of spren. Will write more later.
     
  5. Taika Vinh

    Taika Vinh Aes Sedai

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    I love the spren things too!

    Was the Honor same as Almighty? Could the Stormfather (or the face Kaladin sees - I always thought it was the Stormfather) be Cultivation, then?

    I'm very ignorant about how the Cosmere actually works, because I've only read the books as stories. Never done much "research" what's behind it all. :look
     
  6. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    I didn't think of that, that the Stormfather must have a connection to the spren. So is the Stormfather good or bad?

    BTW I posted this on the other thread but I'll post it here too: Sanderson tweeted the title for book 2 is "Words of Radiance."
     
  7. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I thought that Stormfather and Almighty was the same, but by the end of the book, that was disproven :(
     
  8. Taika Vinh

    Taika Vinh Aes Sedai

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    My intuitive thought was that Almighty=Cultivation, Stormfather=Honor, but that must be wrong too. :p
     
  9. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    My initial thought is similar: Stormfather=Honor, Odium=Hate, but Cultivation is a harmony of the two that we haven't seen yet. It may be hinted at, like the land of Shinovar where the grass grows and there is no spren but I can't figure it out quite yet.
     
  10. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    Just saying this upfront, I'd love to get deep into this convo. But it's going to contain major spoilers from all the other Brandon Sanderson books. I'll do this one post in spoiler tags, and if everyone else is on board, we can go without the tags from here on out.

    Mistborn spoilers:
    Well, there's a note under that list that Arec quoted that talks about Harmony and Sazed (from Mistborn).
    Because Sazed has both those shards, he's called Harmony, which is the combined force of Ruin and Preservation. We know that Odium is held by Rayse. That list says the person who holds Honor (Tanavast) is dead. I don't remember reading about that yet, maybe those of you who have finished the reread can comment on that?

    But anyway, the reference to Odium reigning, both Dalinar and Kaladin questioning why there's so much war and strife in the world... that's all consistent with the Honor Shard not currently being held by anyone (just as, I believe, in Mistborn, the Ruin shard was held, but Preservation was not held until Vin found it).

    Also, reading that page that Arec linked, Cultivation is not a harmony or combination of the two. Cultivation is a Shard in Roshar, just as Honor and Odium are. Figuring that out, I think the Storm Father might indeed be Cultivation. I'm not sure what to make of the difference between Shinovar and the rest of the world, though. I want to say that the Storm Father is what allows things to grow, and the High Storms provide that energy. But that seems contradictory to the fact that Shinovar seems to be the best place in the world to grow things.
     
  11. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    You're right about Cultivation, Sazed holding "Harmony" threw me off with that. Maybe we should keep the spoiler tags on the other books, just in case.

    Just as a side point, I read on that same website the Almighty of Roshar had been killed. (Of course I can't find it now, and I didn't see any proof to back that up)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  12. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    Interesting. So maybe the Almighty was the one who held the Honor Shard.
     
  13. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    Double post!

    Just finished. Dalinar's last vision. Wow. I think Taika Sedai made this same comment, but TOTALLY forgot all about that. I have no doubt now that the Almighty was the person who held the Honor Shard, and that that person is now dead.

    Something else: the Ghostbloods. A group of people trying to do... what? Figure out who the voidbringers are? Kabsal, Shallan's father's steward, the people who came to her family to collect the soulcaster, and possibly Shallan's father himself, were part of this organization. Is the kind of Kharbaranth (can never remember his name) also a part of them?

    The guy that appears at the very end, with the shard blade at the gates of Kholinar... I feel like it's too early for it to really be the start of the Desolation, but not sure what else he could be referring to.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  14. Deiria Sha'Veer

    Deiria Sha'Veer

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    I've been wondering about Shallans father, maybe he can soulcast also? Why else have that broken soulcaster?
     
  15. Taika Vinh

    Taika Vinh Aes Sedai

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    Yes, that makes sense to me! The difference between Shinovar and the rest of the world is that there are no highstorms in Shinovar. Does that mean that the Stormfather (whichever Shard he is) is not present in Shinovar? There are also no spren in Shinovar (that comment was made by the apprentice of the traveling tradesman in one of the interludes). So Storms / Stormfather and spren are linked. Then, would that explain why Szeth doesn't have a spren for his KR abilities? Without the storms and spren, would there be no full Knights Radiant? Argh, more questions!!

    I think it might be. Specifically if it's an ability that runs in a family. Jasnah & Elhokar are siblings, they both can soulcast. Then Shallan's ability would come from her father. But I always assumed the soulcaster broke when Shallan killed her father. I thought she killed her father with his shardblade (how else could she have gotten the blade?), and in the process sliced through the soulcaster maybe. And that'd be why they wouldn't be able to fix it.
     
  16. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    And to add to that, did Shallan's brother have anything to with what was mentioned above?

    I keep thinking about Shinovar. I wonder if we'll learn more about the philosopher Shauka-daughter-Hasweth and her writings. I have a feeling she may reveal something important but I don't know what that might be yet.
     
  17. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah

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    I just remembered something I want to say. In Dalinar's last vision, Cultivation is referred to as a she. However, I feel like the voice Kaladin heard when he road the storm was male (and, of course, storm father though that might mean much in and of it self).

    So that still leaves me wondering who/what the storm father is. :cheese
     
  18. Taika Vinh

    Taika Vinh Aes Sedai

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    Ah well, maybe the stormfather isn't one of the Shards, after all. I totally missed the "she"...
     
  19. Deiria Sha'Veer

    Deiria Sha'Veer

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    I thought stromfather is odium. I got a feeling he is not good one, dunno why...
     
  20. Arecias Dezell

    Arecias Dezell

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    I can't think of anyone else who could be Odium at this point. Gem hearts seem to be creating the most Hate. Not sure of there's a link there.
     
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