The Creator

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-8' started by Jas'yn Al'Dragoran, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Jas'yn Al'Dragoran

    Jas'yn Al'Dragoran Gaidin

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    There is often mention of the Creator as the one who bound the Dark One. But if there are “neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time”, how can there be a Creator?
     
  2. Leala al'Dareis

    Leala al'Dareis Aes Sedai Community Care Coordinator Forum Moderator

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    I’ve honestly thought the Creator was more of a foil to the Dark One. I’ve never really thought about the implications of the title, though.
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Well, it has to have started sometime. At some point, the Creator created the Wheel that made the Pattern.
     
  4. Jas'yn Al'Dragoran

    Jas'yn Al'Dragoran Gaidin

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    I would have thought it was eternal. That seems to be the general thrust of the mythology. That it always was always will be, eternal recurrence of the same.
     
  5. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    Yes, the mythology of the Wheel is based in Buddhist and Hindu mythology, and thus is an eternal "now". So the Creator must always have been, and there was never a time when the Creator was not. A paradox!
     
  6. Alora Sionn

    Alora Sionn Gaidin

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    that's what I thought! Really fun to try to wrap one's head around :giggle
     
  7. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    WoT amazes me with the variety of mythologies and philosophies Jordan--the other Creator--wove into his world. Whole books could be written comparing it to real-world myths, etc. That is one of the reasons I love it so much; it is an incredibly rich world!
     
  8. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    Is it unreasonable to posit that the Creator creates the Wheel, started it on its way, bound the Dark One, his antithesis, and left the world to its own devices so neither was actually touching or influencing the world?
     
  9. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    I don't think that's unreasonable at all, Alenya . . . except that if there are no beginnings--or endings--to the turning of the Wheel, it could not have simply been created; once again, we are in the realm of paradox, which is not unheard of in the great religions of our own world. It is that "eternal now" again; when did "now" begin?

    Welcome to Tar Valon: again! :)
     
  10. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    They're are quite a few religions that start with a creation. If the Wheel was always there, why would there be a Creator?
     
  11. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    True, but in most of those religions the creator was always there, without beginning or ending. So the Wheel must always have existed, or perhaps even be the Creator in tWoT mythology. I just looked in the Companion, but don't see anything about the Wheel having been created, so that is the only conclusion I can come up with. :cheese
     
  12. Analiese Sinclaer

    Analiese Sinclaer Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar

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    You are referring to the Clockmaker in Deism, who set things in motion and moved on, right @Alenya Al'Roran? That is actually how I have always looked at the Creator in WoT.
     
  13. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    In The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, the very first chapter says the wheel was put in place by the Creator.
     
  14. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    That is one relation, but even Christianity says God existed first, Analiese Gaidin.
     
  15. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    A very interesting point; I know RJ was a Freemason, which is much influenced by Deism, as well as other world religions. In tWoT, it does seem as if the Creator has "moved on" and is strictly hands off, though perhaps not unconcerned with the fate of humanity.
     
  16. Analiese Sinclaer

    Analiese Sinclaer Gaidin Company Commander of San d'ma Shadar

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    There are also many creation stories where the gods came after the universe came into existence and were birthed from the chaos. The gods then tamed the chaos and created life. There are many, many mythological references that Jordan pulled from, including the clockmaker and those creation stories outside of monotheism.
     
  17. Jarl Lewin

    Jarl Lewin Aes Sedai

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    Yes, that's one of the things I really love about WoT; it pulls from almost every philosophy to create a world not altogether unlike our own, and which we can all relate to in one way or another, as all good literature should.
     
  18. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    If the Creator set the Wheel in place, them he would be just like the Clockmaker, wouldn't he?
     
  19. Feros Sandulf

    Feros Sandulf Citizen

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    Who is to say that the creator didn't place other wheels as well. I know in really only book two we learn about different worlds that were woven in a different pattern.
     
  20. Alenya Al'Roran

    Alenya Al'Roran Aes Sedai Director of Marketing Social Marketing Manager

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    I think of it more as new threads being attached to the pattern where decisions are made that could cause a major change. Those threads lead to another pattern and are how the portal stones connect to other patterns.