Siuan spoilers

[Aduiavas Ida]

Hmm, I hadn't considered that Al'Amar... Yes, I see your point, we are forgetting that the bond makes the other person stronger and more enduring...

But honestly, ever since Gawyn put on those Seanchan death ter'angreal things they were both doomed

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

Hmm, I hadn't considered that Al'Amar... Yes, I see your point, we are forgetting that the bond makes the other person stronger and more enduring...

But honestly, ever since Gawyn put on those Seanchan death ter'angreal things they were both doomed

Gawyn seems to have taken a double dose of Trakand stupidity. It must have been pre-Morgase ancestors! He was never a proper warder. Using those Bloodknives ring ter'angreals is just so bloody stupid, I don't know how he convinced himself to use them. He was using them before Egwene was trapped by the Sharan army. The goat-kissing idiot started a one-month ticking bomb in Egwene's head for no apparent reason other than to rid himself of some fatigue.

It is as if there were no other warders to look after Egwene when Gawyn needed his 4 hours of warder sleep. Nynaeve has a bunch of warders at her beck and call because "they care for Lan." But the Amyrlin cannot have a second shift of warders. Bloody stupid if you ask me; and that applies to the characters and to the plot writing!

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

As to Egwene releasing Gawyn's bond; that would have amounted to cold-blooded murder. The only thing keeping him alive was the strength and advantages of the bond. If he was a common soldier, he'd have died well before the whitecloaks found him. So, I have to disagree with Egwene releasing the bond. She had to keep it; keep the flicker of Gawyn's life burning, hoping to reach him in time and heal him. Cutting him off when he was wounded gravely would have been purely evil.

Thanks for reminding us of this However...

Gawyn seems to have taken a double dose of Trakand stupidity. It must have been pre-Morgase ancestors! He was never a proper warder. Using those Bloodknives ring ter'angreals is just so bloody stupid, I don't know how he convinced himself to use them. He was using them before Egwene was trapped by the Sharan army. The goat-kissing idiot started a one-month ticking bomb in Egwene's head for no apparent reason other than to rid himself of some fatigue.

It is as if there were no other warders to look after Egwene when Gawyn needed his 4 hours of warder sleep. Nynaeve has a bunch of warders at her beck and call because "they care for Lan." But the Amyrlin cannot have a second shift of warders. Bloody stupid if you ask me; and that applies to the characters and to the plot writing!

...all the more reason Gawyn should have kept himself out of the fighting, plot hole or not. Though RJ/Sanderson might have been purposefully messing with us and wanting us to actually yell at Gawyn by this point (What? You didn't? ). I don't understand the point of writing the story this way other than to possibly give Galad a plausible reason to be near Demandred or to make Egwene distraught enough to give up her own life. Pfaw! :tug

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

Thanks for reminding us of this However...

...all the more reason Gawyn should have kept himself out of the fighting, plot hole or not. Though RJ/Sanderson might have been purposefully messing with us and wanting us to actually yell at Gawyn by this point (What? You didn't? ). I don't understand the point of writing the story this way other than to possibly give Galad a plausible reason to be near Demandred or to make Egwene distraught enough to give up her own life. Pfaw! :tug

The problem is that Gawyn itched to fight. He couldn't restrain himself from fighting and killing :facepalm . It was the deep down hurt Min saw back in book 4 (if I remember correctly). He was not emotionally stable; or was under too much stress :mad . We see a glimpse of how he sheds the blood of soldiers in Bryne's camp just to get their attention.

As to making Egwene distraught enough to give up her own life, I'd think she didn't give up her life because she was distraught. It was because she faced huge odds at a critical point in the battle; and ignored the fatigue of channeling too much. She stood there facing Taim and a couple hundred Sharan channelers who were about to sway the battle in Demandred's favor; in addition to the effect of balefire :balefire on the pattern and ground. She died to stop that; and she died gloriously :cry .

Someone dying because of being distraught is probably Bryne.

As to why Gawyn's arc was written this way, I have no idea. The whole idea of Demandred dueling enemy assassins/killers is silly :swordy . A General doesn't duel. He leads and tries to win. Gawyn should have been incinerated on the spot. A simple wall of fire; not a targeted attack is all it would have taken. But Demandred and his honor Or he was so unhinged and obsessed with killing LTT that he couldn't think rationally.


If Demandred's circle of 72 needed disruption; or if Demandred's channeling needed disruption; more creative methods were needed. In any case, the Light had a few hundred , if not more than a thousand, channelers on "paid leave" during the last battle :drunk

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

The problem is that Gawyn itched to fight. He couldn't restrain himself from fighting and killing :facepalm . It was the deep down hurt Min saw back in book 4 (if I remember correctly). He was not emotionally stable; or was under too much stress :mad . We see a glimpse of how he sheds the blood of soldiers in Bryne's camp just to get their attention.

He was also constantly reminded that his role was to protect Elayne and subsequently Egwene. It doesn't seem like anyone explained to him that doesn't always mean being aggressive towards others. And being newly married and bonded would have only amplified his impulsive nature.

As to making Egwene distraught enough to give up her own life, I'd think she didn't give up her life because she was distraught. It was because she faced huge odds at a critical point in the battle; and ignored the fatigue of channeling too much. She stood there facing Taim and a couple hundred Sharan channelers who were about to sway the battle in Demandred's favor; in addition to the effect of balefire :balefire on the pattern and ground. She died to stop that; and she died gloriously :cry .

I don't think being distraught was the sole reason Egwene died. You're right, she had impossible odds to deal with in a very climatic and hectic situation. But one doesn't simply replace a bond, especially one unexpectedly ripped from you without some sort of effect. Though the void was temporarily replaced by Egeanin, it would not have been the same as if Gawyn survived. Her emotions would have been in turmoil from losing Gawyn and then again having to "adjust" to Egeanin.

Just a reminder that I have yet to relisten to this part (Gawyn has just died) so I don't recall if RJ/Sanderson addresses this in the actual story. I can't imagine she'd be emotionally stable regardless of what is actually written. Aes Sedai or even Aiel training would not prepare either party for that experience.

Someone dying because of being distraught is probably Bryne.
As to why Gawyn's arc was written this way, I have no idea. The whole idea of Demandred dueling enemy assassins/killers is silly :swordy . A General doesn't duel. He leads and tries to win. Gawyn should have been incinerated on the spot. A simple wall of fire; not a targeted attack is all it would have taken. But Demandred and his honor Or he was so unhinged and obsessed with killing LTT that he couldn't think rationally.

If Demandred's circle of 72 needed disruption; or if Demandred's channeling needed disruption; more creative methods were needed. In any case, the Light had a few hundred , if not more than a thousand, channelers on "paid leave" during the last battle :drunk

I can agree with these points

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

Egwene's emotions were a mess after Gawyn's death; but she found stronger ones (anger at the Shadow and Taim) to help her overcome. Warder deaths in AMoL were not very consistent in my opinion. Elayne lost Brigitte but almost felt no effects, only an emptiness and some hurt; and continued as if there was nothing to the degree that she channelled within minutes of Brigitte's death.

As to Gawyn's training, it was to be exactly in the shadow of a stronger woman. Elayne reminded him of that during their chat in Caemlyn in book 13. But he was unhinged, hurt deep down, and couldn't do what's right. As I said earlier, he didn't have to drive himself into the ground with fatigue when the solution was Sleete or another trustworthy warder to fill a shift or two for him to sleep.

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

Egwene's emotions were a mess after Gawyn's death; but she found stronger ones (anger at the Shadow and Taim) to help her overcome. Warder deaths in AMoL were not very consistent in my opinion. Elayne lost Brigitte but almost felt no effects, only an emptiness and some hurt; and continued as if there was nothing to the degree that she channelled within minutes of Brigitte's death.

Elayne also held Rand's bond to keep her steady.

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

Elayne also held Rand's bond to keep her steady.

Having a second bond does nothing to reduce the effect of losing a warder. Examples: Alanna when she lost one of her warders in the Two Rivers; and Adelrona when she lost one of her warders in the Seanchan raid.

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

No more book discussion for me considering I can't remember little details like that so far back. It's been well over a year since if not longer since relistening to A Shadow Rising :P

:fistbump

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

No more book discussion for me considering I can't remember little details like that so far back. It's been well over a year since if not longer since relistening to A Shadow Rising :P

:fistbump

:bow Oh, it is fun to discuss books and have refreshers like this; it helps my WoT obsession; and reminds me of many things .... But that's ok; we can pick it up later.
Btw, Adelrona losing her warder was in book 12, if I remember correctly.

 

[Brandegoris Al'Mor]

I feel worse about Bryne than Siuan... At least she had the choice to sacrifice herself there, but once she was gone, what choice did Bryne have? Senseless Warder kamikaze...

Sucks.. BUT he knew what he was accepting when he allowed himself to be bonded. When that Happens you basically " Consent" to everything

 

[Al'Amar El'Haldir]

Sucks.. BUT he knew what he was accepting when he allowed himself to be bonded. When that Happens you basically " Consent" to everything

He didn't consent He demanded the bond from Siuan before bringing back Egwene from the Tower during the Seanchan raid

 

[Brandegoris Al'Mor]

True enough!