Sephis latter book musings

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Sephi Vardin, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    I definitely would be interested if they did. Alas, Jordan's unfortunate loss means we likely never will.
     
  2. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    This is bothering me. I am on chapter 34 and rand is in the blackness and talking to the dark one. But I don't remember seeing the end of his fight with Mordin! I could have sworn that I have been reading every single page, so how did I miss the ending to that fight? I remember reading them fight, but I could've sworn it ended in a sort of to be continued situation.

    WTF?

    "Dark one brought all of his force against rand"

    Where the hell did Mordin go???


    Edit: the wikia seems to indicate spoilers I havent seen, that may take place after. I guess just bad writing, making this moment unclear?


    Overall this book gets a 5- "great" score so far. I will see where it goes, I suppose.
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    That will be shown in the end.

    You won't get the answer to everything (Luckily :) ) but that one will make sense :)

    Also: Beware chapter 37 :evil
     
  4. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    this book keeps pushing it. It's just a series of battles, so I'm trying to be generous, but it keeps dipping down to being just good (a 4), but then a great moment happens and it plays with being great (a 5)... either way, it is DEFINITELY not a 6 nor a 7 so far. Just not entertaining enough for it, but NOT bad by any means! It's just hard to decide whether this book is just good, or if it's great.

    Edit: I am just starting Chapter 37 now, so this will be interesting.

    Have I mentioned Gawyn is a flaming idiot for wearing the bloodknives rings by the way? He's got it coming. Whatever bad comes his way of it- is his fault.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  5. Thaddius al'Guy

    Thaddius al'Guy Mafia Admin Soldier Forum Moderator

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    Chapter 37 is basically a book within a book, so take your time. It's all worth it.
     
  6. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    And I totally agree about Gawyn :| He is a total idiot.
     
  7. Juliya Karisu

    Juliya Karisu Accepted Forum Moderator

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    Yes, I can't stand this part of him for sure. Especially since he's bonded. Aaaaagh it gets me mad just thinking about it.
     
  8. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    So a certain Aes Sedai just died. Those who read it, know who. The one who died after briefly getting another Warder to replace her dead one.

    Even with knowing the spoiler (I learned this spoiler by accident during my reading of book 10. Damn Dragonmount.. it's why I quit going there within the first few days I joined) it still tugged at my heart way too much....

    and then when another warder in particular died after that (or was it before? either way)... it hit me even harder. A lot harder.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  9. Thaddius al'Guy

    Thaddius al'Guy Mafia Admin Soldier Forum Moderator

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    I wish I could speak on it, but anything at this point is a spoiler. The light at the end of the tunnel has opened. You're almost there.
     
  10. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    Another major death happened. But he took the Foresaken with him.


    All I will say on that part. This book is making me actually cry.


    Between this and the possible worlds seen, I am tempted to give a 6. But sticking to my 5 so far.
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    *Tries very hard not to spoil*
     
  12. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    I have finished it. I will stand by my "great" rating. (5 out of 7) Though the ending philosophically bugs me. Things to ponder on- would good feel empty without evil? I am not sure I agree with that. I also worry it goes over dramatic with its definition of evil to fit that narrative.

    All the same, the final book was great.


    And I'm not sure really what else to say. I've now read every book though, so all of you needn't worry about spoilers now if you wish to engage in conversation over it. Lol
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    The point is one again one of balance. If there was no evil, what would be good? Light, and dark, saidin and saidar, different but same. It fits in the overall theme of the book, imo. I liked that solution :)
     
  14. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    I understood it- I just wonder if I philosophically disagree with it. I'm not sure myself- but I think it's perfectly healthy to question things.
     
  15. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    I finally finished my own re-read last night!

    I liked Thom's little section where he has a little internal monologue about this. He called the Last Battle "exquisite" because the good guys really had to fight and sacrifice to win. If they didn't, would it really have been worthy of being the Last Battle?
     
  16. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    I just feel like I fundamentally disagree with its message.

    Good is still great without evil. Evil is merely the absence and/or perversion of that which is good.

    I also think it forces the message by making good things be seen as "bad"- in order to force an inaccurate narrative. It's no small wonder they feel empty- it didn't just get rid of bad things, but certain things that are only seen as bad and/or didn't replace them with things that are good that they would actually enjoy, in some cases. The absence of evil doesn't mean you lack choice and free will.

    And hell, why would getting rid of the dark one suddenly rid them of evil and/or free will? Doesn't come off believable to me. Though I suppose it's the idea that he's the living embodiment of that evil? But even so, I would refer back to my previous arguments on the fact that the absence of evil doesn't mean a lack of free will- even in cases where good things are their only choices.

    I'd even argue that non-lethal fighting isn't necessarily a bad thing- it's almost like a dance really. it's the competitive spirit. i think being competitive isn't at all a sign of evil.

    This is something I have thought about in daily life- if we truly had world peace, would we grow bored? I even went a step further- if we also lacked any movies, books, etc about war as well. if we not only ended all wars- but couldn't even read nor watch about wars.. would we grow bored with the world? My answer is a resounding- no.

    In fact, there are many beautiful things in this world that avoid conflict entirely. and again, if conflict is something someone desires- that's merely the evil version of something good- competitive spirit. And we have martial arts and even regular sports for that. It's not lethal, it's not based on evil at all. It's merely the desire to have a fun competition, and there actually isn't anything evil about that at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  17. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Well, remember, this is how RAND figures a world without the Dark One will be, not how it would actually be ;)

    But it fits with the overall theme of the book, balance, how you need both saidin and saidar, ta'veren effects being both good and bad etc...

    And I honestly believe that if evil had not existed, we would not have known what goodness was. Just as if we haven't known strife or sorrow, we cannot truly know what happiness and safety is. :cheese But that is just my opinion
     
  18. Atarah al'Norahn

    Atarah al'Norahn Aes Sedai TVT Editor Headmistress

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    But the point is that if you don't have something to measure "good" against, you can't know even know that it's good.

    It's the age old question of the Bible. If Adam and Even don't have knowledge of good and evil, do they really have free will? Likewise, if the people in Randland only know good and have no opportunity to know what evil is, do they really have free will to choose between good and evil? They don't--they're forced into being good. Is that really, truly goodness?

    If you don't know what conflict is, you can't measure if something is without conflict.

    ~Edit~ Basically what Adui said, in my personal opinion.
     
  19. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

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    Where is there balance in evil? People being killed, tortured, or raped or any number of things- evil is chaos. It fundamentally is not balance at all- but the opposite- meant to unbalance all that is. That's something I never understood from the sort of yin and yang philosophy. Evil isn't a form of balance at all- as far as I can tell. I think we might certainly take the peace and safety and happiness for granted, but no- I don't think we would be unaware of what it is just because things that were bad were absent. On the contrary- we'd have more time to focus on a variety of good things.


    I'm merely challenging that assessment. Without evil- good would still be pleasant and nice. You're right, it wouldn't be called good- it would just be. And there's beauty in that, and is a point he misses entirely.

    There are pairs of opposites that are NOT best understood as comparisons to one another. Instead, these opposites indicate the presence or absence of something. "Evil" is simply the absence of "Good". Even if there were no evil, good would still exist and have meaning- there would be pleasantness and enjoyment in it- it would simply be how things are, and it would come in many different forms that people enjoy.