Sephis latter book musings

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Sephi Vardin, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    We all have our different opinions. Honestly, I plan to look back at them again once I have finished the series! For now, these are just my opinions on my first read!
     
  2. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    I've been reading knife of Dreams somewhat slower because I've been busy a lot. That said, I have reached chapter 22 and there's no signs of this book having anything happened so far. 1/3 of the book left and basically NOTHING has happened. This is...bad writing. The series seems to have a pattern of mostly pointless books, where only the last 10 or so chapters usually are worth reading at all.

    Which is really saddening considering how amazing some of the books are and how good some of the other ones are.
     
  3. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Alright, so far I like that Tuon is finally beginning to respect Mat after she has now met the Band! Really well done! I like how bold Egwene is, even if I would rather have skipped all her scenes thus far. I admit though: at long last, Egwene could clear things up with the former King of Illian, THAT felt good! The idea of saving Moraine is well and good as well. And I am glad the Aes Sedai have at long last discovered Halima is a foresaken! I am angry about Perrin and his scenes to rescue Faile... that should have concluded in Winter's Heart! The book right after Winter's Heart should never have been written at all! So far this book feels almost as pointless too!

    I hope things improve to redeem this book soon...
     
  4. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,241
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    There is one scene in particular that redeems this book in my eyes :look I don't think you've come to it yet ;)

    And most people agree that the "Perrin rescuing Faile" go on for waaaaay too long...
     
  5. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Well, Elayne has the thrown now. But just like the rescue of Faile- this should have already happened in Winter's heart. Both plotlines were the biggest thing holding back Winter's heart from being a masterpiece. Because the plot lines for both were dragged on far too long and should have both concluded within that book.

    The Perrin plotline and Elayne plotline were the biggest weaknesses of Winter's heart.

    Which is impressive considering those two are my favorite characters. But they felt like mostly filler with in that book and it was even more shocking to see that it took all the way until knife of dreams for their plot lines to conclude when they should have concluded within within Winter's heart

    The Mat plotline and Rand plotline being the best parts in Winter's heart, and are the two plot lines that make that book nearly a masterpiece.

    But due to that noticeable weakness, and an enormous amount of filler within knife of dreams, I cannot recommend this book.

    This book should have been a part of winter's heart and everything else within this book should not have been written, as it is filler.


    Now, everything involving Rand and Mat has been happening at exactly the pacing that it should be! And I absolutely love that Tuon has officially declared herself his wife!! C:

    Edit: now that its finished, I say this: Crossroads of Twilight should never have been written at all, and the Perrin and Elayne scenes should have happened in Winter's heart instead of Knife of Dreams.

    The Rand and Mat stuff is hard to place, since those were paced correctly. But that is no excuse for the rest of it to be filler...

    So it would go:

    Winter's heart with Perrin and Elaynes plotlines concluding that book, cutting most of the scenes of Perrin and Elayne that were already in the book in favor of concluding them quicker. Nothing else changes.

    Book 10 would be knife of dreams, but with all scenes of Perrin and Elayne being cut since they are in Winter's heart now.


    edit: as for how the perrin and elayne conclusions went: Elayne's happened rather abruptly and all at once which was ironic considering all the pointless build-up and then it happened all at once.. further giving evidence that it didn't need to be dragged out so much. Perrins rescue of faile the conclusion was better paced but just kind of okay... here it it wasn't bad but it wasn't great, it did what it needed to. But of course I still wasn't pleased that it took this long and this many books to get to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  6. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,135
    Location:
    Missouri
    Unfortunately, I'm going to have to stop reading this thread until I catch back up. It's been long enough that I don't remember what all happens, and I don't want to accidentally spoil myself!
     
  7. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    I vastly prefer the way the Gathering Storm is written. On Chapter 34 (1/4th left of the book) and while content wise it is merely a good book that is pulling thingd together and wraping up plotlines and not much more.. it is better written than anything Robert Jordan ever wrote. The writing style is genuinely more enjoyable for me in every single way. I find myself more consistently invested than even the greatest wheel of time books prior. (Dragon Reborn, Winter's Heart and Knife of Dreams)

    I will still only label this book "good" due to the content but that is nearly an injustice considering this is more engaging than all 11 of the prior books. (and arguably the prequel too!)

    So far, I finally found the Nyenave I loved in the first two books... at long last, I love the character again instead of hating her.

    Mat's change in portryal isn't as drastic as people made it sound but I DO see it. I like both versions of Mat equally. (the only time I disliked Mat was the first two books)

    Min sittiny around while Rand speaks of accepting his death in front of Nyenave pissed me off. No matter how sleepy she is, Min would've said something! I do understand he strangeled her but still...

    As for how Rand cast out Cadsuane.. tbh, though I sometimes like her, she sometimes was too arrogant for her own good so it felt good for Rand to put her in her place like that, even if I am not sure I blame her for what happened.

    Tuon annoys me a lot this book so far but I feel she was accurately written so not much I can say. I'm glad she's finally realizing that trollocs are real, and I'm glad that she will be meeting with Rand this book.

    I see Mat is headed for Morraine this book. If this were a Robert Jordan book, that plotline wont truly start till next book (ugh) but the pacing in this book gives me hope that they might do a little bit of that Arc genuinely this book ( if I'm lucky maybe even start to see Morraine!) and then continue it next book.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand that Robert Jordan originally intended to finish the whole series in one book but realistically I don't think he was ever going to they able to achieve that. From what I've seen of his pacing, he is incapable of making anything happen in a timely manner in his writing. He simply can't do it. Okay, the only book I've ever seen written by him that was paced well was the prequel. So I will give him that one time.

    I also understand that parts of these last three books still contain things written by him but my point still stands, I can see a noticeable change with the way this book is written and it is more engaging. Not just because of the pacing, though that definitely contributes. The writing style is genuinely more interesting and holds my attention better.

    edit: Oh and the rural town frenzy Mat stuff was FUN- just pure unadulterated fun!!!

    edit 2: okay Mat is getting goofier with the fireworks lady but I still like it lol. I guess he has a stop first, to see who put the bounty on him and Perrin. Meh, still might be a fun time. This book gives me a lot of hope!

    edit 3: Tuon. Her meeting with Rand going badly makes sense. Frustrating and makes me dislike Tuon even more this book but...as expected, ultimately. Good writing!


    edit 4: Rand is annoying me with how broody he is getting this book. Meanwhile, this version of Mat and his interaction with Verin is turning him into my new favorite character XD!!! I LOVE this version of Mat!!!

    edit 5: More great moments keep popping up....too many great moments! I am simply given no choice. If I were to say every moment that I enjoyed in this book, I would be essentially telling the plot of every major moment within this book! Therefore I'm given no choice but to say that this has easily become the greatest book in the series so far, surpassing the Dragon Reborn!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  8. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,241
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yes, you do notice a very big difference in how the last three books are paced than the last few. But things don't happen as quickly as you wish anyway. But I can promise at least two EPIC moments in this book ^^
     
  9. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    I disagree- this book has the pacing that is very tightly done- arguably faster than necessary in some places but ultimately a tightly wound book of perfection, really. This is the kind of pacing every book should have had all along, maybe even SLOWER than this book even, though I am not complaining lol

    Having finished the book, I have decided to bring back numbered ratings for the sake of simplicity- however I will not use the numbers to be objective.

    On the contray, this is a scale of 1-7 and is based ONLY on my subjective enjoyment of each book.

    The scale is as thus:

    1. Bad/Terrible
    2. Dissapointment
    3. Okay
    4. Good
    5. Great
    6. Amazing
    7. Superior

    with that out of the way, this makes rating the books extremely easy. Now I can be entirely subjective and it doesn't make me use an unnecessarily arbitrary "out of 10" nonsense.

    Book 1: Eye of the World- 3
    Book 2: The Great Hunt- 4
    Book 3: The Dragon Reborn- 6
    Book 4: The Shadow Rising- 1
    Book 5: The Fires of Heaven- 4
    Book 6: Lord of Chaos- 5
    Book 7: A Crown of Swords- 2
    Book 8: The Path of Daggers-2
    Book 9: Winter's Heart- 5
    Book 10: Crossroads of Twilight- 1
    Prequel: New Spring- 5
    Book 11: Knife of Dreams- 4
    Book 12: The Gathering Storm- 7
     
  10. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,115
    Location:
    OFallon, MO
    The Matt scenes upset me because they just pointed out how much I didn't get to see. Matt is out planning and doing but readers don't get to see that! We're stuck watching Perrin chase after Faile and Eguene do all the things she said she'd never do!
    She complained about Siuan Sanche using children to fight the Black Ajah. Eguene did the same thing when she became Amyrlin! I started to think that she was respecting Siuan but no one would listen to her because she got weaker in the power after healing.
     
  11. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Dont know what you mean so maybe it is passed me. In any case, I am now at the scene where Nynaeve is trying to heal Rand's madness.

    Consistently, Nynaeve under Sanderson's pen has become my favorite female character so far. Arguably more so than Jordan's Elayne and Min...which is REALLY saying something!
     
  12. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Book 13 gets a 6, same as Dragon Reborn. Borderline a 7, very tough call to make. But the early first half felt like a 5, thus overall it is a 6. Also, I Dare not risk saying spoilers. How fitting this was so difficult to judge, as this was easily the longest book in the series. I solemnly swear to wait until November to read the final book. Not a single page until the first.

    That will be tough to do, but I will. So that the end takes longer to reach.
     
  13. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,135
    Location:
    Missouri
    I'm about halfway through Towers of Midnight, I think, so I'm catching up! One thing I noticed is that while Robert Jordan would write multiple chapters from the same character's point of view before switching to the next, Brandon Sanderson rarely has the same focus for more than one or two chapters in a row. I think that has changed the pacing a bit. Another thing is that in book 13 the timelines take a while to re-align. Rand is further ahead than the other characters, and their stories slowly catch up throughout the book.
     
  14. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,241
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yes, Perrin especially is lagging behind the others :p

    But in all honesty, Towers of Midnight is one of my favourite books in the series :)
     
  15. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Really? I actually didn't notice that at all. Jeez, they seemed to all be happening in real time in all the books I read, so I guess it just slipped for me. I figured that anytime it goes to another character, sometimes it's immediately after the last one, or sometimes it rewinds slightly but that they were basically happening simultaneously. (give or take a mild rewind sometimes to give more time for that scene to show what they did at the same time as the last scene we already saw, for example)

    Meaning that the plot sometimes advances forward to something happening immediately after the other POV, and sometimes it rewinds to show what happened in a new POV at the same time as the last POV we saw. But that, those two were the only things the series does.
     
  16. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,241
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Well, this will be made OBVIOUSLY clear in the next book... One Very Important Event will be revisited ;)
     
  17. Elania al'Manir

    Elania al'Manir Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    8,135
    Location:
    Missouri
    Two examples off the top of my head:
    • Elayne thinks about Rand, and based on what she can feel through the bond he's still in Altara, and still in "dark mode". But by this point in the book, however, we've seen that Rand is in Tear, and in "light mode".
    • Nynaeve fetches Tam from Perrin in the previous book. She knows where to get him because Rand describes him camping by a large statue with a sword and talking with Whitecloaks. However, when we start book 12, Perrin isn't there yet. He finally arrives later on.
    A lot of times it's just little clues to help us match up the timelines. It obviously doesn't have any large impact on the story, since it's still fully coherent and sometimes not even noticeable.
     
  18. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    On chapter 12 of the final book. Getting very angry that they are taking so long to address the black tower. I get that them doing so much helps balance the final battle (otherwise, the protagonists were winning too much up until now), but it's the final book, get on with it already!

    12 chapters in and so little has truly happened. Just the initial battles and Mat is in Eban Dour to see the Seanchan and I guess stop some vague mention of an assassination attempt on Tuon. This is bugging me.
     
  19. Sephi Vardin

    Sephi Vardin

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Shara's rise into battle is awesome! Glad to have more than just the Dreadlords lead by the newest forsaken (which is an awesome addition btw!) to assist the shadow.

    The light winning is more glorious if the shadow puts up a good fight (other than just the age of legends's forsaken survivors, Fades, and Trollocs, of course)
     
  20. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,241
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yes, I like that Shara comes in by surprise like that...

    I just wish we had some more information from that area, other than the few references in outside story books.